Jonathan Goldstein
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Just a heads up, this episode does have some strong language. Do you think people can really change?
Oh, yes. I mean, I have to believe that. I mean, even if I don't believe it, I have to believe that. And I think like that's the struggle. It's like the paradox. I mean, like we are who we are. But I think as long as we're alive, we're able to change.
I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Jonathan Goldstein.
What does Jonathan Goldstein believe about people's ability to change?
I was writing and no one was buying what I was selling. I just couldn't get anywhere. And I just kept doing it because I felt compelled to do it like a spider spinning a web.
Jonathan Goldstein believes in closure, which is what his massively popular podcast Heavyweight is all about. Helping people move on from some kind of unfinished business in their lives. Maybe that's helping someone make amends or to say thank you to a stranger or or to help a person turn a page on a traumatic experience. And yes, the word heavy is in the title, but it doesn't feel that way, in large part because Jonathan is very funny. And he's also got this lightness about him. He's the kind of guide who makes it clear no matter what happens around the next bend, he'll be there rooting you on. I am so very happy to welcome Jonathan Goldstein to Wildcard. Hi!
Hi, thank you so much. It would have taken me about 10 tries to get that and so much editing.
I don't believe you.
It's true, and yet it's true.
I'm going to hold up three cards. You pick randomly, one, two, or three.
Okay.
First three cards. First three cards.
Now, one is on my left.
I tend to think of one being this on my right.
Oh, yeah. Okay, that's my left.
Okay.
I'm trying to make this as confusing as possible for myself. Because I'm hoping – I guess my subconscious wish is that you're just going to say, you know what? Forget it. We're going to do a rerun this week. Okay, sorry. It doesn't matter. You know what? I get the impression as a child magician that you're trying to force the number two card. It's poked out a little bit more.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah. Okay, now you're forcing the one and the two. I just want to please you. I'll take the number two.
I'm not pushing. I promise. Although I do like this question.
Okay.
Look what happened there. Okay. What's an ordinary place that feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there?
Okay. You see, it's very difficult for me to talk about places because I'm not very place aware.
How does Jonathan define closure in his podcast Heavyweight?
Oh. Really? I live so much of my life up in my head. Okay. For many years, I thought of it as like internal. And then like through therapy, I've begun to see it as disassociative possibly. I will say broadly, movie theaters are kind of like, I think Pauline Kael called them like her church. And I think that's a little bit the way that I feel about movie theaters. Yeah. And there's one particular, I live in Minnesota, Minneapolis, and there's an old mid-century theater. theater that uh used to be walking distance from my house and i would just go see anything that was playing there and always sit way way way back in the back row because i like to take it all in um by yourself by myself yeah it had i'd like going there with people but i you know if i had my druthers it was by myself and that just felt um like my place in the dark looking up at this big screen and
Feeling like a baby being held by somebody, you know? Maybe that's a part of it. I don't know.
What was the extraordinary part of that experience?
I think this particular theater, because it's mid-century, I had the experience last Christmas of going to see It's a Wonderful Life there.
Hmm.
And I found it to be a very emotional experience. Like it's just, I mean, it's just a room. But it, I don't know, all of this stuff sounds very corny.
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