Pella Thiel (LinkedIn, webpage) is the institutional activist and farmer that is focused on getting ecocide legislation into the ICC at the Hague. Support their work at Stop Ecocide. We talked about ecocide law and why it is potentially so elegant and powerful. We also talked about what direction ecocide law points us in with regards to our state as a human species or as a part of the whole earth's ecosystem. We spoke about the importance of loving what is already here and the power of the institutions and the system that we have built that we now need to transform. We spoke about the value that we can find in relationships and what happens when we dare to localise our value - shifting our gravity of value closer, to biking distance even. This is such a hands on, humane and warm conversation that I'd recommend anyone to listen to it regardless of if you need a pick me up or if you are a budding activist and need a different way of changing the system than chaining yourself to a tree. Enjoy! Host: Amit Paul

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