Episode overviewIn this episode, Amy sits down with Steve Haberlin to explore what’s changing in contemplative practice as artificial intelligence becomes woven into daily life. Steve shares why he created a customized GPT mindfulness guide (“MetaZen”), how he’s studying its use with doctoral students, and why he advocates a “human-first” approach: learn from a skilled teacher when possible, then use AI as a supportive bridge—not a replacement.Together, they unpack the promise and the concerns: access and personalization on one side, and privacy, data harvesting, and ethical guardrails on the other. The conversation closes with a look at education’s future, the pressures faculty may face, and Steve’s upcoming book MetaMeditation.What you’ll hear in this episodeKey themesHow Amy and Steve connected through LinkedIn and why that kind of professional relationship-building matters nowWhat a “custom GPT” is and how Steve designed MetaZen as a science-grounded mindfulness guideLive facilitation with AI: a brief demonstration of an AI-led mindfulness practiceWhy human relationship still matters in meditation training (and what’s lost if we remove it)The “opportunity gap”: the vulnerable window between learning a technique and sustaining itWhy most meditation app users stop early and what might help people stay with practiceAI as a “technological mirror”—helpful feedback, with real limits and risksEthical concerns: hallucinations, red flags, over-agreeableness, and the dangers of using LLMs as therapyVR and avatars: what’s already here (Trip app + “Kokua”) and what may be next (smart glasses)Privacy and biometrics: what data is collected, what can be sold, and where oversight is still catching upHigher education: personalization, AI tutoring, and the likelihood of increased productivity pressure on facultySteve’s upcoming book: MetaMeditation: How Neuroscience, Virtual Reality, and AI are Changing Practice and How You Can BenefitPractical takeawaysThink “blended model,” not replacement. AI can extend a teacher’s support—especially between sessions—without removing the relational core.Sustainability is the missing piece. Access is expanding, but adherence still drops off quickly; support structures matter.Attach practice to an existing habit. A 60-second breath anchor paired with a daily routine can build consistency.Keep humans in the loop for anything mental-health-adjacent. LLMs weren’t built for therapy, and risks increase when people treat them like clinicians.Privacy isn’t a side issue. As biometrics and usage data become standard, informed consent and oversight will be essential.Steve’s Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-haberlin-ph-d-22390b55/Steve Haberlin, Ph.D.The link for Steve’s talk on how to build an AI Chat Bot: https://ucf.zoom.us/rec/share/2qP180cbV182FF0_T7mLG-uhTbyA_3myEGXLaipzNNMD49CHpzrOmLzMizGSsoQY.cPMJvDoX23UIjaFY?startTime=1770148625000 Passcode: Av0=9%qqContact Amy @ www.TheOptimalState.com Yoga Therapy Hour Podcasthttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158 The Optimal State Mobile Apphttps://optimalstateapp.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theoptimalstate/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/OptimalStatebyAmyWheeler YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/AmyWheelerphd/featured Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/yogatherapyhour Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wheeler-ph-d-a3095566/Apple School of Integrative Health at NDMU: https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU: https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification Hashtags for NDMU#IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool

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