1DCA Division 4 Oral Argument - 2026/01/13 - Jan 13, 2026

argument

1DCA Division 4 Oral Argument - 2026/01/13

California First District Court of Appeal 2h 0m 8 chapters transcribed 7 days ago official recording ↗

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Why was appointing counsel for the presumed father critical in the Humboldt County case?

Unknown 0:06

Okay, please be seated, everyone. Belated Happy New Year, and I want to thank everybody for being willing to go forward with only two folks seated up here right now. As indicated, one of our justices had an emergency medical procedure and can't be on the bench with us today, but we'll be listening to the recordings of today's proceedings. So thank you for your willingness to go forward. With that, let's begin with the first case on calendar, which is Humboldt County Department of Health and Services versus SL. I think we have both counsel on the screen. And they look like they're ready to go. Why don't we begin with appearances, beginning with counsel for the appellant?

Leslie Berry 1:07

Good morning, Your Honors. Leslie Berry on behalf of Appellant SL.

Unknown 1:12

Okay.

Leslie Berry 1:14

Good morning, Your Honors.

Unknown 1:15

Joel Campbell Blair 1:15

ahead. Joel Campbell Blair, Deputy County Counsel on behalf of Respondent Humboldt County Health and Human Services.

Unknown 1:21

Okay, and so why don't we turn back to counsel for the appellant, and let me ask you how much, if any, of your 15 minutes you'd like to reserve for rebuttal.

Leslie Berry 1:32

Three minutes, Your Honor.

Unknown 1:34

Okay, so can we have 12 minutes on the clock in the courtroom, and you'll just have to keep track of your time, and you may proceed.

Leslie Berry 1:46

Good morning, Your Honor. May it please the court. In a dependency case, the status of the father determines his rights. An alleged father has very few rights, notice, and an opportunity to elevate his status and counsel to assist him in that effort. A biological father has a few more rights, the right to notice, an opportunity to elevate his status and counsel, and he can be entitled to reunification services. if it's in the child's best interest, but he is not entitled to custody. A presumed father has the greatest rights, including the right to counsel, to custody, and to reunification services. Because of the importance of the status of a father, the juvenile court has a duty to inquire about parentage at the initial hearing

Leslie Berry 2:47

usually referred to as the detention hearing. And again, at each and every hearing until parentage is established.

Unknown 2:57

Can I ask when, in your view, would have been the appropriate time for the trial court to make that finding or assign counsel to S.L.? ? given that SL's appearances in the proceedings were kind of sporadic. So when should that have happened in your view?

Leslie Berry 3:30

First, it should have happened at the initial hearing.

Unknown 3:33

At the detention

Leslie Berry 3:34

hearing? Yes. On January 31st, 2024. Mother's counsel informed the court that father was her spouse. That made him a presumed father pursuant to family code section 7611 subdivision A. At that very moment, he should have been appointed counsel and deemed a presumed father.

Unknown 4:02

Even though he wasn't there at that point, right?

Leslie Berry 4:05

Yes, because a presumed mother who isn't present would still be appointed counsel. And we should not be treating a presumed father differently than a mother.

Unknown 4:20

Well, but isn't there a, I mean, isn't there like a biological difference? Like I know if I've given birth to a child, you know, but there's a presumption that my husband is the father. That's not, you know, that's not necessarily a matter of biology true. Whereas if I've given birth to, like I know a mother would know So a presumed mother stands, I mean, just as a matter of biology in a different status than a presumed father. I mean, this person had three presumed fathers. You could never have three presumed mothers, right?

Leslie Berry 5:02

Well, you could have two presumed mothers because Family Code 7612 does not distinguish between women and men. So a child could have two presumed mothers and no fathers. where a child could have two presumed fathers and a mother, or maybe no mother. So your

Unknown 5:24

view is that even though SL was not at the initial detention hearing, he, as well as NMD who was present and wasn't there a third whose name I can't remember, um,

Leslie Berry 5:42

A, but he was never around period. I don't even know who honestly A is. He was mentioned as a potential father. But going back to your distinguishing women from men, I do want to make it clear that a presumed father does not have to be a biological father.