Darren Shand in Podcasts

Now, Darren, All Black Manager, 20 years, and I know there'll be like, well, you know, people might have an idea about what that role is all about for doing it for 20 years.

I mean, the other things you wouldn't realise when you go and do a podcast like that, I imagine, Darren, like that people wear and how people are going to consume that information.

I think after the 2007 Rugby World Cup, I think talking to Darren Shand, I think it all took them a couple of years to actually genuinely sit down and admit that perhaps they had got it wrong instead of maybe laying blame at the referees and stuff.