Murray Sidman

…late 80s, something like that. And it's a curious book. It's essentially a book-length essay without data. My copy looks just like that. And in it, Sidman gives his view of punishment, and he includes not only positive punishment, but also negative punishment. So he acknowledged that that the withholding reward was also a coercive technique, I believe.…

…I believe he was a very kind man who was revered by his students and made some really, really seminal contributions. And a fair amount of the stuff that I discuss in Kynology Symposia about avoidance conditioning was brought to light by Murray Sidman, right? So the book that Yvonne is alluding to, Coercion as Fallout, is a popular work of Sidman's that was…

…No, again, it's very much, that's why I say like I can see how, The ideas of Murray Sidman, you know, it's the same thing. It's like coercion and it's fell out. It's like, well, we can do life instead of Lima and so on.…