Steve Holland in Podcasts

It's a fictionalized event, of course, by James Graham, but also it is based on a lot of fact and great detailed research. And so it's a testament to his team, Steve Holland, and also a testament to Pippa Grange, the psychologist he brought in, brilliantly played by Jodie Whittaker. I should say as well, because normally on this podcast, Joseph, we are all commentators, and the guests that we have on are invariably commentators.