UNGPs

…many of us in the human rights space for being two-dimensional, I would say, and dogmatic. And so I don't think he wanted us to understand the UNGPs in a dogmatic way, right? And I do think an orthodoxy has arisen around them,…

…John wasn't an orthodoxy, right? And I don't think he ever wanted the UNGPs to be an orthodoxy. He certainly didn't want the Protect, Respect, Remedy framework to be that. He understood the need to experiment, the need to be creative, the need to, you know, as a political scientist coming into an area, human rights, that's dominated by lawyers, he saw that,…

…Human rights due diligence with the UNGPs. They equate the UNGPs with business and human rights. They equate business and human rights with human rights. Almost like forgetting the Russian dolls, right? And I think if you do that, you lose a lot, right? John was a norms entrepreneur.…