Abbas Amanat

And these donations that's received by Ayatollah Khomeini was very effectively through his network was distributed, even if he was in exile at Sadira.

So the 1977, 1978, when the situation changed and there was a little bit of opening in the political climate,

Then you saw that Ayatollah Khomeini start sending cassette messages.

That was his mean of communication.

He was sending cassettes and cassettes were sent through the country by his network.

So all declarations and saying first,

that we would like to see a greater democratization and the Shah has to abide by the constitution of 1907.

This is a constitution, this is a democratic system and so forth.

Was he charismatic?

Well, it depends who would call, what do you call charismatic?

He had the long beard.

He was kind of a man in turban and the gown, which was...

a very unusual leadership role

for people who were much more accustomed to the civilian clothing or to the equipment of the Shah's military uniforms that he used to wear.

All the above that you mentioned.

No, I think no, it's beyond the appearance.

The appearance greatly helps, as you know.

Yeah, that's an important factor.

And he was kind of an adamant,

and very severe in his own positions.