Alastair Campbell

And then very much in the Theresa May stable, and then very much in the

boris stable then he wrote that joint letter with olive dowd and rishi sunak saying boris is the future and so he's he's been the good soldier to every general place ahead of him and he just hasn't got where he thought he wanted to be so rishi becoming prime minister olive becoming deputy prime minister and him was like number two at the home office and that's the way he kind of peaked and and i think he's very angry that he has done what he believes is being kind of a good and loyal uh uh

member of parliament.

But so one of the points, but no, but one of the points is, one of the points is,

I refuse to believe, I'm sorry, I refuse to believe that anyone honestly can go on that much of a political journey from right over there to right over there.

Well, you can if you believe nothing.

Well, you might think that.

I couldn't.

Quite close, yeah.

Oh, I knew you were going to go there.

I'll tell you why.

So how does that explain all the European circumstances?

Would you not buy some of that, at least?

No.

The third of that troika, it's not a troika because they weren't working together, but the third of those names is currently leading the polls and doing well in the election.

And your hypothesis is if we passionately denounced the delivery of a democratic mandate hard enough,

then somehow Nigel Farage would do less well.

So I'm genuinely not sure what you are saying.

So, Alistair, I don't want to make this all about Brexit.

Well, I know that's part of the problem.