Alastair Campbell

No, no, but I just lay these down, and we're not going to agree, so we can dance around this May poll over and over again, but we're not going to agree.

But if your hypothesis was right...

How do we explain the fact that this bifurcation of politics, this polarisation of politics is happening across mature democracies, including down in Australia and European countries?

How do you factor or how do you explain the fact that our economic performance has largely tracked identically to the other major European countries?

It took a big dip during COVID and a slow recovery out of COVID.

Look at the GDP graphs of the UK or France or Germany.

The big three European economies.

None of them are doing well.

None of them are doing well, but they all follow the same trajectory.

And so if it was all about Brexit, and you're saying... It's not all about Brexit.

Or mainly about Brexit.

That's exactly what it's about.

I tell you, mate, I don't know how long we've got before we have to pull stumps.

That's the rule of the podcast.

I've got to vote at 10 o'clock, so I'm not sure we've got enough time to agree on this.

Because that worked so well for you guys previously, didn't it?

I mean, that really worked during the... We didn't do it.

It really worked during the referendum campaign.

Look, I'm going to disagree.

I'm going to disagree with you on the, on the strategic, on the, on the strategic intent there.