Alistair Campbell

But I think the reason why he's only my runner-up is because the winner was

of the most evil hand I ever shook was actually somebody who really killed a lot of his own people and just totally ruined his own country, and that was Mugabe.

I really had a sense meeting, did you ever meet Mugabe?

And he just emanated.

You just didn't enjoy being in the same space.

He had this horrible manner about him.

He was surrounded like a lot of authoritarian leaders are by sycophants sort of, you know, bowing and scraping as he walked.

He had the most ridiculously expensive suits.

I think even Xi Jinping would struggle to match Mugabe on the suit front.

And his little – his handmade shoes with his little – with his initials on the inside, but all this sort of horrible stuff.

But I just think in terms of what he did to his own country, absolutely evil.

And, of course, going back to the discussion on the main point about – in the main episode about corruption –

all that too.

So I think it's probably him.

I think that he takes the gold medal from Vlad.

Those two guys have done, and I've got to be honest, reading their books, which I did a while back, and listening to the corruption part of this book, it does make me feel slightly sick that

That when we were in government, we didn't do more to stop this whole Russian laundromat situation in London.

Because there's no doubt that we were, I think there's a line in London falling.

We didn't just sort of open the door, we kind of rolled out the red carpet to them.

So yeah, both brilliant books.