Alistair Campbell

He just literally just got back from Syria.

And, you know, I think I said when we did the trip to Ukraine for the fourth anniversary that every time he goes, even he as president, every time he goes in and out, he has to do 12 hours on the sleeper train.

But he didn't look tired.

And I think he was just, I found it very open, refreshingly kind of open.

And I didn't find him theatrical.

I saw that more as he, I don't think he liked making it all about himself.

So, for example, he would talk about his son becoming an adult before his time, or he talked about his mum maybe feeling it more than he did.

I didn't get the feeling that he wanted to make it all about himself, whereas a lot of politicians love to make it all about themselves.

And I thought the other answer I thought was really interesting, which sort of relates to what you just said,

was when I asked him when he was running for office, it was post-Crimea.

Putin had already started his operation.

Was there not a part of him that thought he might have to end up as a war leader?

And he basically said no.

He didn't ever think that was going to happen.

So I think he was an accidental politician in some ways.

And I think he became an accidental war leader.

But I think he's brilliant at both.

Yeah, or maybe it's harder in what is ultimately his third language.

So he's a Russian speaker, perfected his Ukrainian fairly late in life, and English is his third language.

I got a sense of a very good-humored guy, though.