Alistair Campbell

I mean, I talked to somebody when I was out there who said, don't underestimate how lonely he is.

He's got very, very few people he can absolutely trust 100%.

He's got this amazing collection of world leaders that he has to kind of keep on board.

And, you know, can he trust any of them?

100%?

Not really.

Can any world leader really trust somebody who's running another country?

Very frustrated and very suspicious about Trump, but can't really say that.

And so I think actually his wife, and they, as he said in the interview, they met when he was, she was a comedy script writer, he was an actor and a writer.

And, you know, and he said that, you know, they have to sometimes just have a laugh and try to find things funny, because if you don't have a sense of humour, you're kind of finished, you know, your world sort of literally collapses.

So I think he'd be conscious of not wanting to be flippant about anything.

But I always got the feeling of somebody who actually does have a lightness of touch, but is harder in a third language, I think.

I'll tell you the bit I absolutely love, though, Rory.

Guess what I'm going to say.

No, no, no.

Similar.

It is something that I want people to believe in.

No, it's when I suggested that the UK should join the European Union on the same day as Ukraine.

It's so interesting.

So we should say to people that also on YouTube, the film that I made in Ukraine, including the interview with Marta Kos, the enlargement commissioner.