Andrew Marantz

To back up, one thing I said, because I was thinking about metaphors, and we were talking about, you know, where in the Schrodinger's cat of democracy are we? One thing that I think is a real flaw in the metaphor is, you know, we're writers. We think about metaphors.

democracies don't die. They can always be rebuilt.

democracies don't die. They can always be rebuilt.

When people— When you have to think twice before you speak up.

When people— When you have to think twice before you speak up.

And on that point, you know, we were talking about we're sitting here in the citadel and we're not afraid to call it out. And that's true. I will say—and again, these are very early signs because we're not far enough into the timeline to know— No, the New Yorker has not been compromised. And no, free speech is not dead. And yes, it does matter that we have a First Amendment.

And on that point, you know, we were talking about we're sitting here in the citadel and we're not afraid to call it out. And that's true. I will say—and again, these are very early signs because we're not far enough into the timeline to know— No, the New Yorker has not been compromised. And no, free speech is not dead. And yes, it does matter that we have a First Amendment.

I will say, though, when I was reporting up at Columbia, people were giving me anonymous information. And they were saying, we're actually sort of scared to give this to you because we don't know what all the harboring laws are. We could be sort of making you an accessory to someone who's on the run from ICE or something.

I will say, though, when I was reporting up at Columbia, people were giving me anonymous information. And they were saying, we're actually sort of scared to give this to you because we don't know what all the harboring laws are. We could be sort of making you an accessory to someone who's on the run from ICE or something.

And I gave the spiel that journalists always give, which is, if you're an anonymous source, I will go to the mat to protect you. We are willing to go to jail to protect our sources. And when those words came out of my mouth, I said, How willing to go to jail am I, actually? That was the first time I'd had to think about that.

And I gave the spiel that journalists always give, which is, if you're an anonymous source, I will go to the mat to protect you. We are willing to go to jail to protect our sources. And when those words came out of my mouth, I said, How willing to go to jail am I, actually? That was the first time I'd had to think about that.

So I don't think I'm going to jail anytime soon, but the fact that I had to think twice about it. I agree with this. I have the same experience.

So I don't think I'm going to jail anytime soon, but the fact that I had to think twice about it. I agree with this. I have the same experience.

Am I going to get through?

Am I going to get through?

Well, and so I think we can agree that the tariffs were a bad idea and that they will have a political cost and that generally people don't like it when you tank the economy and that that might cause them to lose the midterms. And by the way, generally speaking, you always lose the midterms when you're in the White House. But by more, by more. By more.

Well, and so I think we can agree that the tariffs were a bad idea and that they will have a political cost and that generally people don't like it when you tank the economy and that that might cause them to lose the midterms. And by the way, generally speaking, you always lose the midterms when you're in the White House. But by more, by more. By more.

But then the question is really, what do we mean by losing? If they lose the midterms and if Trump doesn't get everything he wants, right? If Trump doesn't get to be king for life and he doesn't get to hand the scepter and crown to Don Jr. and he doesn't get his face on Mount Rushmore, is that losing? Because I would argue that

But then the question is really, what do we mean by losing? If they lose the midterms and if Trump doesn't get everything he wants, right? If Trump doesn't get to be king for life and he doesn't get to hand the scepter and crown to Don Jr. and he doesn't get his face on Mount Rushmore, is that losing? Because I would argue that

they've already not lost in the sense that, okay, a couple of the students that they tried to put in jail have been freed. Mahmoud Khalil is still last I checked in prison. I don't mean last I checked glibly. I mean, like, I checked yesterday and I don't know what happened today. I don't think, on the flip side, that one should see as much alarm and hair on fire either everywhere you look. But...