Anne Applebaum

As they began to do that in a more regular and a more believable way, everybody began to say, right, we need to think once again about self-defense. And of course, the invasion of Ukraine was a triggering point where people saw that Putin was prepared for a very large scale war. He was prepared for civilian atrocities, for the destruction of infrastructure, all of those things.

As they began to do that in a more regular and a more believable way, everybody began to say, right, we need to think once again about self-defense. And of course, the invasion of Ukraine was a triggering point where people saw that Putin was prepared for a very large scale war. He was prepared for civilian atrocities, for the destruction of infrastructure, all of those things.

And that meant that NATO needed to refresh its defenses again. And that process is continuing, actually. I mean, the European countries are now almost all spending more than 2%. Some of them are higher than that. Poland, where I live part of the time, is over 4% of its, I'm talking about percentages of GDP, on the military. And in a way, it's very sad.

And that meant that NATO needed to refresh its defenses again. And that process is continuing, actually. I mean, the European countries are now almost all spending more than 2%. Some of them are higher than that. Poland, where I live part of the time, is over 4% of its, I'm talking about percentages of GDP, on the military. And in a way, it's very sad.

And that meant that NATO needed to refresh its defenses again. And that process is continuing, actually. I mean, the European countries are now almost all spending more than 2%. Some of them are higher than that. Poland, where I live part of the time, is over 4% of its, I'm talking about percentages of GDP, on the military. And in a way, it's very sad.

That's money that people aren't spending on health care or, I don't know, building nice parks and cities. are a lot of things that you sacrifice for doing that, but that's all happening because of this perception of threat. So NATO has been an institution that was interested in keeping the rules. I mean, NATO was very Europe-focused.

That's money that people aren't spending on health care or, I don't know, building nice parks and cities. are a lot of things that you sacrifice for doing that, but that's all happening because of this perception of threat. So NATO has been an institution that was interested in keeping the rules. I mean, NATO was very Europe-focused.

That's money that people aren't spending on health care or, I don't know, building nice parks and cities. are a lot of things that you sacrifice for doing that, but that's all happening because of this perception of threat. So NATO has been an institution that was interested in keeping the rules. I mean, NATO was very Europe-focused.

The idea of NATO was that it was part of a set of European institutions that would preserve borders in Europe, that would prevent the repeat of a large-scale war of the kind that everybody suffered from in the 1940s. It has never been an institution designed to project power into Russia or or anywhere else.

The idea of NATO was that it was part of a set of European institutions that would preserve borders in Europe, that would prevent the repeat of a large-scale war of the kind that everybody suffered from in the 1940s. It has never been an institution designed to project power into Russia or or anywhere else.

The idea of NATO was that it was part of a set of European institutions that would preserve borders in Europe, that would prevent the repeat of a large-scale war of the kind that everybody suffered from in the 1940s. It has never been an institution designed to project power into Russia or or anywhere else.

And you're saying it sounds like you're saying the NATO expanded after he invaded Ukraine.

And you're saying it sounds like you're saying the NATO expanded after he invaded Ukraine.

And you're saying it sounds like you're saying the NATO expanded after he invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine was not a member of NATO, and nor was it on the path to be a member of NATO. And I have to say, even had Ukraine been a member of NATO, maybe the invasion wouldn't have happened. So one of the reasons the invasion happened was because Ukraine was a country that was in limbo. It didn't have... any real military guarantees.

Ukraine was not a member of NATO, and nor was it on the path to be a member of NATO. And I have to say, even had Ukraine been a member of NATO, maybe the invasion wouldn't have happened. So one of the reasons the invasion happened was because Ukraine was a country that was in limbo. It didn't have... any real military guarantees.

Ukraine was not a member of NATO, and nor was it on the path to be a member of NATO. And I have to say, even had Ukraine been a member of NATO, maybe the invasion wouldn't have happened. So one of the reasons the invasion happened was because Ukraine was a country that was in limbo. It didn't have... any real military guarantees.

It did have actually, there had been security guarantees signed in the 1990s, this famous Budapest memorandum signed by the U.S. and the U.K. and Russia that guaranteed Ukraine's borders and Ukrainian sovereignty. But that obviously was abandoned by Russia in 2014 with the first invasion of Crimea. Ukraine was not provoking Russia. Ukraine was not seeking to invade Russia.

It did have actually, there had been security guarantees signed in the 1990s, this famous Budapest memorandum signed by the U.S. and the U.K. and Russia that guaranteed Ukraine's borders and Ukrainian sovereignty. But that obviously was abandoned by Russia in 2014 with the first invasion of Crimea. Ukraine was not provoking Russia. Ukraine was not seeking to invade Russia.

It did have actually, there had been security guarantees signed in the 1990s, this famous Budapest memorandum signed by the U.S. and the U.K. and Russia that guaranteed Ukraine's borders and Ukrainian sovereignty. But that obviously was abandoned by Russia in 2014 with the first invasion of Crimea. Ukraine was not provoking Russia. Ukraine was not seeking to invade Russia.