S2 Ep1024: Anne Applebaum: Everything Is a Game to Trump
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Who are the hosts and guests in this episode?
Hallo und willkommen zu The Bulwark Podcast. Ich bin euer Host Tim Miller. Ich bin begeistert, hier mit Staff Writer at The Atlantic zu sein. Ihre Bücher sind Autocracy Inc., Twilight of Democracy und die Pulitzer Prize gewinnende Gulag A History. Es ist Anne Applebaum. Lass uns das machen, Anne. Wie geht es dir? Ich bin gut. Ich bin gut. Wie bist du? Gut genug, ja. Gut genug. Ich bin gut genug, hier in meiner persönlichen Leben. Geben all die Gulag News out there. I was talking to Katie and I was like, we better get Ian Applebaum on. Who better to have than the author of Gulag History?
What is the significance of the Kilmar Abrego-Garcia case and Congressional intervention?
We had a minor, maybe positive green shoot late Thursday night when Chris Van Hollen got to meet with Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, possibly the first known person to actually get out of So I worried a little bit about why they let out Abrego Garcia to meet Chris Van Hollen. I mean, clearly, well, one of the reasons was to show he wasn't dead, which people were beginning to wonder about.
But it also, the way it was staged, you know, it was meant to say, look, this guy is absolutely fine, there's nothing wrong with him, he was wearing clean clothes, he was in some kind of restaurant-looking setting. It was clearly designed to show that nothing all that bad is happening. So I worried about that aspect of it. Obviously the fact, you know, a U.S. Senator is willing to go there and put his reputation on the line and, you know, make an effort to save an innocent person from... A horrific and pointless fate is fantastic. And it's you know, I think it's gestures like these that will remind people that Congress has agency and senators can do things. I'm pleased that he did it. I mean, of course, what matters now is what happens next.
Does the administration listen to the Supreme Court, which has demanded that. Oh, das ist interessant. Ich wusste das nicht. It means Main Camp Administration. And SISOT is also an acronym. And, you know, these are names given to institutions that have unclear powers and exist outside of the rule of law. And SISOT, from our point of view, is doubly outside the rule of law because it's outside of our country. So it's outside of our legal jurisdiction. It exists according to the unclear laws of some other country. Es ist vielleicht einfacher, mit Abrego Garcia zu sympathisieren, weil er unnötig ist und der Vater eines autistischen Kindes ist und er hat nie das Gesetz gebrochen. And he's married to a U.S. citizen and so on. But really, even the ugliest and most unpleasant people who were sent into this lawless zone, that was a grave violation of the spirit of our Constitution. What a rule of law society is designed to be is one where there aren't exceptions, there aren't emergencies, there aren't gray areas and gray zones.
We have some already in our system, but this is an expansion of that. And it really is profoundly disturbing. And, you know, for that reason alone, it's really right that Senator Van Hollen went there to make that point.
Yeah, do you worry at all about the propaganda side of it, with the taking him out? I guess that's the thing that I don't, it's hard for me to process, like, so, why did they do it, right? Like, there's the positive way to look at that, which is that he responded to pressure, you know, Van Halen is there, I've pointed out at a press conference that El Salvador is a party to this international covenant on civil and political rights, and as part of being that covenant, they... Es ist ihnen notwendig, dass sie diesen Gefangenen Zugang zu einem Arzt oder, weißt du, zu außerhalb Zugang geben. Also auf der einen Seite ist das gut. Auf der anderen Seite machen sie dieses seltsame Ding, wo sie diese Pretend Margaritas in der Bildung stellen. Und dann ist Bukele wie retweeten Menschen, die darüber sprechen, wie es alles Teil eines Trolls war. Und sie werden beweisen, dass...
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Who are the hosts and guests in this episode?
0:28–1:02
2
What is the significance of the Kilmar Abrego-Garcia case and Congressional intervention?
1:02–4:59
3
How is propaganda used in the Abrego-Garcia affair?
4:59–12:34
4
What historical parallels exist between the Gulag system and current prison camps?
12:34–23:00
5
What legal challenges has the administration faced regarding detainees?
23:00–28:54
6
How is kleptocracy affecting the US government under Trump’s administration?
28:54–34:26
7
What conflicts of interest involve Elon Musk and government agencies?
34:26
8
Why is the rule of law crucial for American democracy and how is it challenged?
24:28–48:46
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from The Bulwark Daily
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Bill Kristol: It Always Comes Back to Trump/Russia
Mehdi Hasan: 9/11's Fallout 25 Years Later
Sarah Longwell and Pedro Gonzalez: Meet the Young MAGA Edgelords—and the One Who Got Away
Jessica Tarlov: POTUS Needs Some Moral Support
Adam Jentleson and Pablo Torre: This Country Is Being Scammed