Anne Applebaum

These aren't little drones.

These are huge drones.

And I said, how many do you make?

And they now make 100 a day.

These are very sophisticated little planes.

And how many do you launch every day?

And they say, we launch 100 a day.

They have this permanent now campaign of hitting Russian oil and gas infrastructure all the time.

And this is, when they describe it to me, they say, this is the real sanctions.

The sanctions that the U.S.

and Europe do are now full of holes.

The U.S.

isn't really enforcing them anymore.

It's too easy for everybody else to buy oil and gas from Russia, and so we're going to make it more difficult.

And that's now really important and very underreported for reasons that I don't really understand, but a very underreported part of how Ukraine is fighting as well.

So they understand that killing people won't win the war.

but maybe doing enough damage to infrastructure could.

And their theory of victory now involves that.

You know, we do enough damage that they at least have to stop fighting.

And that's, you know, but you're right.