Anne Applebaum

Yeah, I think we do.

I don't think the Ukrainians underestimate them.

I mean, my last month, a lot of recent conversations I've had in Ukraine have been with people who say, right, we get it.

The Russians don't care how many people we kill.

I mean, we're going to go on killing them because...

That's how we keep our country sovereign.

But they shifted strategy some months ago and they began really focusing on hitting Russian oil export and oil refining facilities.

And they do that because they say, OK, they don't care about people, but they care about money and they care about wealth.

And so we're going to try to hit them in the places where they're making the most money.

And actually, just in the last couple days, they've started hitting tankers.

So far, it's empty tankers, just in case you're worried about oil spills.

They hit a couple of tankers that were going into a poor oil tankers.

I think they were under a Gambian flag, but we all understand that this is called the Shadow Fleet.

We understand that they're Russian or they're going to be carrying Russian oil.

And they also have had this campaign to hit Russian refineries.

And they've hit several dozen of them, and they do it repeatedly, and they do it almost every night.

I was in a Ukrainian long-range drone factory in September.

And they showed me these drones.

They're like little airplanes.

They're large.