Ap Dijksterhuis

And the only thing you can do then is lose them again.

So he started to cook in order to not make any mistakes, which is a completely different way of doing things.

And he lost his interest.

He didn't like it anymore.

Yeah, exactly.

And there's other examples, even studies with children.

You know, you ask them to make drawings.

And this is what most children naturally love to do.

And then you start to pay them or give them some other kind of reward.

And they actually start to like it less.

Yeah, the big problem with extrinsic motivation is not the extrinsic motivation itself, but it's the eroding, as you said, of the intrinsic motivation.

You know, it's like a cuckoo in the nest, you know.

It pushes the other eggs out.

I wanted to write a book about creativity.

And after about a year, I gave up because I liked the topic, but I didn't have a good idea of what the book would be.

It was all still very vague.

And then about three, four years later, I tried again.

And again, I failed.

And then I was in Ecuador, in Quito, the capital.

And there are four or five very old churches and convents in the old town.