Ava Berger

He played the bassoon in the 1960s at Interlochen.

And he would come back later in the 90s and early 2000s and donate almost a little bit over $400,000 to the school.

So, Ghislaine Maxwell would contact a school administrator.

We'd like to come and stay in the cabin.

The administrator would say, yes, great, what do you need?

And Ghislaine would get back and say, we want these things, and we're coming.

Once they're there, they really were on their own.

This lodge was his base there.

And while he was there, he was walking around campus and he had a little dog with him, with Ghislaine Maxwell.

And that's where he ended up meeting to a 13-year-old and a 14-year-old girl.

The first woman who testified in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, she described years of sexual abuse.

The second woman who we talked to, she described a relationship that was manipulative and controlling and an abuse of power.

It's a mess.

The Epstein files are really a mess.

There are redactions in some places of people's names that aren't victims and then they're not redacted in other places.

And then there's so many repeats of files or you'll have like an email chain.

And you'll have one email and then the next file is the second email and the next file is the third email.

And then the last file is all six of the emails on the email chain, if that makes sense.

So it's a lot of it is just going through being, I saw this, I saw this.

When I was looking at these documents, I was trying to find a theme.