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Ben Buchanan

👤 Person
266 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

Aaron remembers it because he's saying we're going to the moon, but actually I think he gives the better line when he talks about the importance of space.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

Aaron remembers it because he's saying we're going to the moon, but actually I think he gives the better line when he talks about the importance of space.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

And I think that is true in AI, that there's a lot of tremendous uncertainty about this technology. I am not an AI evangelist. I think there's huge risks to this technology. But I do think there is a fundamental role for the United States in being able to shape where it goes. Which is not to say we don't want to work internationally, which is not to say we don't want to work with the Chinese.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

And I think that is true in AI, that there's a lot of tremendous uncertainty about this technology. I am not an AI evangelist. I think there's huge risks to this technology. But I do think there is a fundamental role for the United States in being able to shape where it goes. Which is not to say we don't want to work internationally, which is not to say we don't want to work with the Chinese.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

It's worth noting that in the president's executive order on AI, there's a line in there saying we are willing to work even with our competitors on AI safety and the like. But it is worth saying that I think pretty deeply there is a fundamental role for America here that we cannot abdicate.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

It's worth noting that in the president's executive order on AI, there's a line in there saying we are willing to work even with our competitors on AI safety and the like. But it is worth saying that I think pretty deeply there is a fundamental role for America here that we cannot abdicate.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

So I think let's look at just a narrow case of AI for intelligence analysis and cyber operations. This is, I think, pretty out in the open that if you had a much more powerful AI capability, that would probably enable you to do better cyber operations on offense and on defense. What is a cyber operation?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

So I think let's look at just a narrow case of AI for intelligence analysis and cyber operations. This is, I think, pretty out in the open that if you had a much more powerful AI capability, that would probably enable you to do better cyber operations on offense and on defense. What is a cyber operation?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

Breaking into an adversary's network to collect information, which if you're collecting a large enough volume, AI systems can help you analyze. And we actually did a whole big thing through DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency, called the AI Cyber Challenge, to test out AI's capabilities to do this.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

Breaking into an adversary's network to collect information, which if you're collecting a large enough volume, AI systems can help you analyze. And we actually did a whole big thing through DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency, called the AI Cyber Challenge, to test out AI's capabilities to do this.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

And I would not want to live in a world in which China has that capability on offense and defense and cyber, and the United States does not. And I think that is true in a bunch of different domains that are core to national security competition.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

And I would not want to live in a world in which China has that capability on offense and defense and cyber, and the United States does not. And I think that is true in a bunch of different domains that are core to national security competition.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

What we mean canonically when we speak of hacking is finding vulnerability in software, exploiting that vulnerability to get illicit access. And I think it is right that more powerful AI systems will make it easier to find vulnerabilities and exploit them and gain access. And that will yield an advantage to the offensive side of the ball.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

What we mean canonically when we speak of hacking is finding vulnerability in software, exploiting that vulnerability to get illicit access. And I think it is right that more powerful AI systems will make it easier to find vulnerabilities and exploit them and gain access. And that will yield an advantage to the offensive side of the ball.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

I think it is also the case that more powerful AI systems on the defensive side will make it easier to write more secure code in the first place, reduce number of vulnerabilities that can be found, and to better detect the hackers that are coming in. And I think we tried as much as possible to shift the balance towards the defensive side of this.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

I think it is also the case that more powerful AI systems on the defensive side will make it easier to write more secure code in the first place, reduce number of vulnerabilities that can be found, and to better detect the hackers that are coming in. And I think we tried as much as possible to shift the balance towards the defensive side of this.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

But I think it is right that in the coming years here, this sort of transition period we've been talking about, that there will be a period in which sort of older legacy systems that don't have the advantage of the newest AI defensive techniques or software development techniques will on balance be more vulnerable to a more capable offensive actor. Which is what most people use.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

But I think it is right that in the coming years here, this sort of transition period we've been talking about, that there will be a period in which sort of older legacy systems that don't have the advantage of the newest AI defensive techniques or software development techniques will on balance be more vulnerable to a more capable offensive actor. Which is what most people use.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

I don't know if that's right, actually. I mean, you have an iPhone in your pocket that, or Google Pixel. People are often not that quick about updating. Yeah. I mean, the less tech literate you are, the more vulnerable you can be to this.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Government Knows AGI is Coming

I don't know if that's right, actually. I mean, you have an iPhone in your pocket that, or Google Pixel. People are often not that quick about updating. Yeah. I mean, the less tech literate you are, the more vulnerable you can be to this.