Ben Fisher

frequently having more startup weekends in New York.

And they basically were like, hey, we don't know you guys.

You're welcome to go do your own thing.

And so what was more interesting to us was we're like, all right, well, it's cool to do a hackathon.

But what would be more interesting is if it was more skills-based because you release a bunch of folks and tell them to go build something in 48 hours.

And after a while, you do that a few times, the results continue to be sort of chaotic.

Some great stuff might come out of it.

But at the time, the idea was there has to be a better way

Like what are the skills that we can learn so that we're not just spending a weekend trying, making the same mistakes over and over again?

Is there a way for us or a process to sort of try to distill what are the skills and like things to focus on that in a more focused way, quite frankly.

And that was when we came across Eric's stuff and that was just really resonated.

Is that accurate?

Yeah, well, so Alchemy, I mean, it spun out in the sense that it was my next company.

I left Lean Startup Machine, I think, after about nine months.

We went separate ways.

Was it making money when you left it?

Yeah, yeah.

How was it generating revenue?

Just ticket sales?

Ticket sales, yeah.