Ben Fisher

And he was like, I want to build a software company because it's, you don't have to deal with the film and you don't deal with a lot of, a lot of the sort of technicalities of, of, of physical stuff.

And he looked at all the tools he'd been paying for and was basically like the abandoned cart app that he was using made him a bunch of money every month and

And it was, quite frankly, a piece of crap.

And he was like, I bet I can do this really well.

It's a simple ROI.

And so he actually hustled and built together an initial sort of MVP, got paying customers.

I basically took a year to sort of be really...

spend time and like careful around what did I want to work on next?

I'd done a bunch of projects with different people and had a much clearer idea based off my past companies of what, who would compliment me well.

And, and, you know, quite frankly, who would I be a good match for from a skillset and just, uh, uh, expertise.

Um, and what really drew me to, to Jordan was, um,

that he's a great marketer.

Uh, he has some hard marketing skills and as a technical person, one of my biggest challenges and quite frankly, working and sort of identifying partners has been, how do you, you know, how do you go about identifying how good someone is at business?

Um, you know, that you can't look at their portfolio in the same sense that a designer, you can look at their design portfolio programmer, you can look at products they've built.

Um, and you can at least get a sense of, you know,

their style or, or a sort of level of, of, of skill, a lot more, a lot more difficult to identify that with a technical, I'm sorry, with a, with a business partner who's actually in the business side.

Um, so yeah.

So help us.

So where's hard hook now?

What does it do and why do people pay you?