Beth Macy

And again, the successes that I see are when it's, it's the relationship is, is truly invested in, in like heart to heart way.

That's when folks can tend to start get better.

She goes to her pastor who has helped her when she was a single mom and who she believes thoroughly.

And she asked him what she should do.

And she told me not long ago.

She went in.

They knew why she was coming in.

They were on the floor praying and they looked up at her and they said, we believe her husband is a good man.

And that was it.

End of story.

And she still will tell you, I don't know if that happened.

I don't know if that did or didn't happen.

And Liza lives with this every day of her life.

She told me she thinks about it almost every day.

She says, he ruined my life.

Well, we had no relationship with her husband.

I've not seen him since 1985 or 6.

I don't even know what he looks like.

But I've seen Cookie, you know, once a year maybe while visiting mom.

And we have vastly different beliefs and worldviews, but we love each other.