Brendan O'Connor

Guy, he was the chef and founder of Noma in Copenhagen.

Like you remember, Noma used to be regarded like as the best restaurant in the world.

I think you think part of the...

It is something you have to develop.

And as a parent now, right, it's something I've done with my kids for years is get them to argue with me.

And there had been stories about abusive behaviour, but he was back in the news recently and it was really bang to rights.

Of the cure, maybe, for all this separateness we're talking about is those moments of connection, etc.

OK.

And to, like, argue their case.

When they were young, five years of age, six years of age, my six-year-old would say, I want to stay up a bit later.

I think moments of grace, you call them.

Appalling treatment of people, wasn't it?

Explain what you mean by those moments of grace.

And I'd say, stand up against the fireplace, sir, and make your case.

And she'd say, well, I don't think I should go to bed.

I'm six.

And Lizzie's three.

30 in total, as in like 30 days back?

And, you know, Sophie's one.

And I think I should go to bed.