Brendan O'Connor

was part of why she exhorted you to be a writer?

No, it's not about bringing none of yourself.

That would be like, absolutely know what I'm saying, but it's about you're not the worker either.

You're not the guy who's down in that.

You're a bit above that, right?

And you have to maintain a bit of distance between that.

But the best managers I would see are always the people who have a little bit of vulnerability, tell you you know a little bit about them.

For you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know they can say, I don't know, right?

And she broke, she broke a cycle too, but she... Yes.

And so that there's that bit of vulnerability in them also, but they're not...

But she didn't get the benefit of it.

They're not, you know, they're not down there hanging around, going drinking every night, all that kind of stuff, whatever's going on in the workspace.

And, you know, there are so many women of that generation.

That's not the role of the manager.

I think you have to be vulnerable.

You have to be open, but not overly.

So it's a balance.