Brittany Luce

Listen, I know, because I've been my husband for 11 years.

But the years before that, the 11 years before that, scary time.

You know, I wonder, I...

There are all of these words, little buzzwords that feel very connected to this archetype of a pathetic man, like a performative male or, what is that, the rat boy or soft boy or baby girl.

All of these terms have been used to also describe different types of male celebrities.

We've been talking a lot about fictional characters or people that we've seen on reality television or something like that.

But I'm wondering also about the construction of the ideal male that we see in celebrity.

How is this idea of a pathetic man reflected through the changing rules of male celebrity?

And they did so many different kinds.

I still have like I think an issue from 2003 or 2004 that was like the young Hollywood issue.

So they have like – exactly.

They have like different themes for different years.

But this year it was like all dudes, right?

traditional this sort of marriage between what we expect a Hollywood celebrity to be right the sort of Tom Cruise mold of like handsome action star along with not afraid to show show effort right which like you know being effortful is in many ways like the antithesis of traditional masculinity yeah you're supposed to just be able to play it cool at all times but I think that's what that's the thing that ended up tipping me over into being a fan of what's his name again Glenn Powell thank you I'd be forgetting the whole combination but

But that is what tipped me over into being a fan of Glenn Powell is I was like, oh, he's really not afraid to be vulnerable about how bad he wanted to be the guy.

And he worked really hard at being the guy and he wasn't the guy for a long time.

And there was something that was very charming to me about that.

We've got more coming up after the break.

also i think about someone like say michael b jordan who is very much obviously this like sex symbol but in interviews he seems to be kind of like a rather reserved guy who loves anime yeah um but but i i feel like because of the way that people think about black men and black male black male sexuality he's never gonna have that baby girl edge even though when you really look

He is baby girl.