Chris Grey

And why was there such a premium on relationships with Trump?

Well, again, there would have been a premium on those relationships quite irrespective of Brexit because of the, never mind about Brexit, the issues about the defence and security relationship with the United States would make that the case.

But Brexit adds another dimension to it because of the economic thing and because of this idea that, you know, that was still sort of floating around that somehow a trade deal with America was still the big prize.

Now, OK, I mean, actually, what came out of all that was not a trade deal with the United States.

It was, at best, some mitigation of the Trump tariffs.

And all of that now, to me, I don't know about you, but I find I'm totally at sea with it.

I don't know.

And I can't imagine what it is like for British businesses trying to export to America.

I've just got no idea.

What is the tariff regime?

How does it work?

The things that supposedly were agreed, in what sense are they in agreement?

Are they in force?

Any of those things is a complete mess.

And one of the things, by the way, that reflects, which is not, I think, very often commented on, but it doesn't seem to be very much noticed, is that not only has Trump really created a crisis in NATO, he's created a crisis or exacerbated, I would say, a pre-existing crisis in the World Trade Organization.

And so, to come back to Brexit, the pillars...

through which the Brexiters imagined that post-Brexit Britain was going to be kind of in the world.

Some of them were fantasies about the Commonwealth and all that kind of thing, but others of them were to do with NATO, to do with the United States, and to do with, remember all the times the Brexiters told us, oh, we can trade on World Trade Organization terms, that'll be just fine.

And we'll get a free trade agreement with the United States.

And we'll get a free trade agreement with the United States.