Damian Hughes

I mean, do you remember that conversation we had with Dr. Pippa Grange when I said to her about banter?

That's one of the things I often see in, you go in the dressing room and sometimes when it's really quite caustic and cutting and you can start to see the sort of debilitating effect it has in the dressing room and on teammates.

And I said to Pippa that I often refer to it as the language of the dickhead and

She said it's the language of the insecure.

That kind of banter of just putting the guardrails up, stopping anyone getting too close.

And you do it through sort of like the waspish tongue or the acerbic comments that you make.

When you learn to recognise, it often comes from such a place of such deep insecurity and that inability to just be vulnerable, to be honest, to almost be naked there and say, I don't know the answer to this.

I often find it's like one of my favourite tests when I sort of go into teams is just listen to how many times anybody ever says the words, I don't know.

And you'd be surprised how infrequently it happens.

And yet in the highest performing dressing rooms I've been into,

People admitting I don't know, being curious, leaning into other people that have got a perspective that they don't have is remarkably common.

Well, I think it's a soft skill that often has fairly hard impacts in terms of results.

Well, actually, as you say that, I was going to, like you mentioned Stephen Gerrard there, and I often think that when I've been in the company of Stephen or Frank Lampard, like just name those two, for example, I always find it really warm how affectionate and grateful and happy they are when they see you.

Do you know what I mean?

And I always think that they're always interested in you.

And I'm talking about you personally, Jake, and I think part of that comes from the kindness that you showed them in a moment of vulnerability.

It's something that the greats don't forget it.

The greats don't take that for granted.

And I think that that still manifests itself in their relationship that they have with you personally.

Well, two reasons why I'm going to suggest this one.