Daniel Ek

But even in filmmaking or in TV series, the amount of people that used to be able to be showrunners or producing or directing these things, it was a fairly limited group of people, right?

And it probably mattered a lot, not to diminish any of their talents, but it probably mattered who you knew was an integral component and having talent.

So you kind of had two different things.

But in the last few years, as the budgets have expanded, and certainly in the Netflix case,

it would have been physically impossible to just keep this same set of producers, directors, et cetera, right?

Because they're just trying to make so much more content.

So one of the interesting things is the same thing is happening now where there's last time directors and producers, not just doing sort of local productions, but actually now coming to Hollywood-

and doing that as well.

And I've seen it in my case, there's been a bunch of Swedish writers and producers and actors now that are getting into Hollywood productions and it's been fun to see.

And not just the usual names, but actually like some more unknown talent making its way as well.

And there are more people trying, but there are also more opportunities.

And then obviously, as you mentioned on the podcasting side, the same is true there, but it's true on both sides.

That's the crazy thing.

But there's also more competition, which is, I think when people are talking about Spotify and criticizing it, that's the part I think is the biggest misconception because they hear so many people who are trying and it doesn't work where they're not making a lot of money of it.

they're naturally sort of drawing the conclusion that, hey, there has to be something wrong with the model.

This model can't work.

But in reality, both things could be true at the same time.

Yeah.

And I think podcasting is like much earlier in its maturity.

Yeah.