Daniel Kokotajlo

As AI races forward, we must also strengthen human sovereignty.

SCALE's research team, SEAL, provides practical AI safety frameworks, evaluates frontier AI system safety via public leaderboards, and creates foundations for integrating advanced AI into society.

Most recently, in collaboration with the Center for AI Safety, SCALE published Humanity's Last Exam, a groundbreaking new AI benchmark for evaluating AI systems' expert level, knowledge, and reasoning across a wide range of fields.

If you're an AI researcher or engineer and you want to learn more about how Scale's data foundry and research team can help you go beyond the current frontier of capabilities, go to scale.com slash Dwarkesh.

Scott, I'm curious about, you know, you've reviewed Joseph Henrich's book, Secrets of Our Success, and then I interviewed him recently.

And there the perspective is very much like,

I don't know if you'd endorse, but, like, AGI is not even a thing almost.

I know I'm being a little trollish here, but it's just, like, you get out there, you and your ancestors try for a thousand years to make sense of what's happening in the environment, and some smart European coming around.

He can, like, literally be surrounded by plenty, and you just, like, will starve to death because...

Your ability to make sense of the environment is just so little loaded on intelligence and so much more loaded on your ability to experiment and your ability to communicate with other people and pass down knowledge over time.

Part of me was just like, I was doing that interview, I'm like, maybe ESI is fake, maybe just like... Let's hope.

That's right.

So what we're asking is to just radically boost up the technological maturity of civilization within the matter of years.

Or get us to the Dyson Spheres in the matter of years.

Rather than, yes, maybe causing a 10x-ing of the research.

But I think human civilization would have taken centuries to get to the Dyson Spheres.

I agree.

We're on a totally different topic here of do you get the Dyson sphere?

There's one world where it's crazy, but it's still boring in the sense of

You know, the economy is growing much faster, but it would be like what the Industrial Revolution would look like to somebody in the year 1000.