David Remnick

Because I interviewed him here at the New Yorker Radio Hour.

And I have to say, it was like interviewing a cloud.

He answered in a very mild way and in a very skilled way, too, I would say.

But I couldn't get my arms around his answers sometimes.

We talked about the job loss issue, for example.

And here's a bit of that interview from 2023.

Well, let's slow down for a second.

What does this imply in the much broader sense about what change is coming down the road in concrete terms?

You know, I'd say that I left that interview not all that happy with myself.

I didn't feel like I got any great purchase on what Sam Altman was about.

But you obviously did with much greater time and much greater access, Ronan.

How is that different from Elon Musk?

Right.

So he looks you in the eye, and then he looks you in the eye.

Yeah, exactly.

And reflects back what you want to hear.

I'm speaking with Ronan Farrow, along with Andrew Morantz.

They've co-written a long, deep investigation of Sam Altman and the rise of OpenAI.

That's all on The New Yorker this week.

We'll continue in just a moment.