Debra Kamin

And a lot of real estate agents obviously would disagree with this, but from Mike's opinion, this is his asset. He did not want to put forth $100,000 or more of the sale price to an agent, but nobody was willing to negotiate.

And a lot of real estate agents obviously would disagree with this, but from Mike's opinion, this is his asset. He did not want to put forth $100,000 or more of the sale price to an agent, but nobody was willing to negotiate.

So he said to himself, how hard can it be?

So he said to himself, how hard can it be?

I'm going to do it myself. That's my plan. And he began not just selling his house on his own, but chronicling the whole thing online for viewers and building a following as he did it.

I'm going to do it myself. That's my plan. And he began not just selling his house on his own, but chronicling the whole thing online for viewers and building a following as he did it.

He starts running into roadblocks. He learns very quickly that the industry has made it much harder than he thought to sell his house. First of all, he knows that if he wants a buyer to come, he needs to offer commission to the buyer. He was willing to.

He starts running into roadblocks. He learns very quickly that the industry has made it much harder than he thought to sell his house. First of all, he knows that if he wants a buyer to come, he needs to offer commission to the buyer. He was willing to.

It's almost like he's in court representing himself.

It's almost like he's in court representing himself.

So he knows if I want buyers to come, I should probably be willing to pay the buyer's agent commission.

So he knows if I want buyers to come, I should probably be willing to pay the buyer's agent commission.

Exactly. So he's willing to pay that commission, and he wants to get the house listed on the MLS so people can find it. Now, if you're not working with an agent, how do you list a house on the MLS?

Exactly. So he's willing to pay that commission, and he wants to get the house listed on the MLS so people can find it. Now, if you're not working with an agent, how do you list a house on the MLS?

And a lot of that was pinned to the idea that rules were going to be followed to the letter, and they were not. So here we are a year later, and things have shifted a tiny bit, but we're talking about a drizzle, not a watershed. Just take us back to the settlement.

And a lot of that was pinned to the idea that rules were going to be followed to the letter, and they were not. So here we are a year later, and things have shifted a tiny bit, but we're talking about a drizzle, not a watershed. Just take us back to the settlement.

He Googles it. He figures this out. There's companies that do this for you. But he lives in Colorado, and he quickly learns that in Colorado, there are laws that say if I'm going to list the house on the MLS, I have to also do a bunch of other stuff, and you have to pay me all this stuff. It's a rule designed by realtors to make it too hard to get your house listed on the MLS.

He Googles it. He figures this out. There's companies that do this for you. But he lives in Colorado, and he quickly learns that in Colorado, there are laws that say if I'm going to list the house on the MLS, I have to also do a bunch of other stuff, and you have to pay me all this stuff. It's a rule designed by realtors to make it too hard to get your house listed on the MLS.

Then he realizes that he wants to get his house listed on Zillow. Everybody uses Zillow and Redfin to search for houses.

Then he realizes that he wants to get his house listed on Zillow. Everybody uses Zillow and Redfin to search for houses.

And he learns that Zillow actually has a program that homes that are sold for sale by owner, not with agents, are actually harder to find than homes that are listed by agents.

And he learns that Zillow actually has a program that homes that are sold for sale by owner, not with agents, are actually harder to find than homes that are listed by agents.

So basically, in real time, for all these people following him on Instagram, he's discovering all these layers to the real estate industry that he didn't know existed.

So basically, in real time, for all these people following him on Instagram, he's discovering all these layers to the real estate industry that he didn't know existed.

So he gets the home on the market, he stages it, he takes photos, it's ready to go. Buyer's agents in Boulder know about his house.

So he gets the home on the market, he stages it, he takes photos, it's ready to go. Buyer's agents in Boulder know about his house.

And one day, one of them gives him a call and says, something's happening that you need to know about. Agents representing buyers at my company are talking to each other in text and in person saying, we're not going to sell this guy's house because he's not playing by the rules.

And one day, one of them gives him a call and says, something's happening that you need to know about. Agents representing buyers at my company are talking to each other in text and in person saying, we're not going to sell this guy's house because he's not playing by the rules.

There's a word for this in real estate. It's called steering. You're either steering buyers towards a certain home or away from a certain home, and you're not allowed to do it, but it happens all the time.

There's a word for this in real estate. It's called steering. You're either steering buyers towards a certain home or away from a certain home, and you're not allowed to do it, but it happens all the time.

So to take you back to the settlement, we actually have to go back a little bit further to October of 2023, when the National Association of Realtors, which is the trade organization that really oversees the real estate industry, they are the largest trade group in the United States. They are hugely powerful.

So to take you back to the settlement, we actually have to go back a little bit further to October of 2023, when the National Association of Realtors, which is the trade organization that really oversees the real estate industry, they are the largest trade group in the United States. They are hugely powerful.

There's no hypothetical. They gave the explanation in text messages that I saw when I was reporting. Wow. They told this other agent who wanted to bring buyers, why would you take buyers to a house with a seller who's working against the system, who's undermining the way things have been done? It was a boycott.

There's no hypothetical. They gave the explanation in text messages that I saw when I was reporting. Wow. They told this other agent who wanted to bring buyers, why would you take buyers to a house with a seller who's working against the system, who's undermining the way things have been done? It was a boycott.

So Mike does find a buyer. There's a couple in Florida who sees the house on Zillow. They make an offer. He actually offers to pay a commission to the agent who's representing them. But in the end, he actually pulled out of the sale because Mike decided, after seeing so much of the inside workings of the real estate industry, that he wants to start a business to try to fix it. Wow.

So Mike does find a buyer. There's a couple in Florida who sees the house on Zillow. They make an offer. He actually offers to pay a commission to the agent who's representing them. But in the end, he actually pulled out of the sale because Mike decided, after seeing so much of the inside workings of the real estate industry, that he wants to start a business to try to fix it. Wow.

So rather than moving his family to Costa Rica, which was his dream, he's now going to stay in Colorado for the time being and work on this startup company that he's created. Wow. to try to change real estate commissions. Fascinating. And he told me about how it's not that he's trying to take down the real estate industry.

So rather than moving his family to Costa Rica, which was his dream, he's now going to stay in Colorado for the time being and work on this startup company that he's created. Wow. to try to change real estate commissions. Fascinating. And he told me about how it's not that he's trying to take down the real estate industry.

He believes that real estate agents are very important and sometimes are really useful.

He believes that real estate agents are very important and sometimes are really useful.

His message, though, which has been echoed by many other people I've spoken to in my reporting, is that you should be able to determine how much you want to pay for that service. And the industry gets on allowing those conversations to come to the surface. Sounds good. All right. Great to meet you. Bye. You too. Bye.

His message, though, which has been echoed by many other people I've spoken to in my reporting, is that you should be able to determine how much you want to pay for that service. And the industry gets on allowing those conversations to come to the surface. Sounds good. All right. Great to meet you. Bye. You too. Bye.

If you talk to economists and analysts in the industry, they will say the settlement was a massive breakthrough moment. If you talk to agents, many of them will say the settlement changed nothing. There is a huge gap in understanding. And in the middle are agents on the ground just trying to make money and home sellers and buyers just trying to navigate the process.

If you talk to economists and analysts in the industry, they will say the settlement was a massive breakthrough moment. If you talk to agents, many of them will say the settlement changed nothing. There is a huge gap in understanding. And in the middle are agents on the ground just trying to make money and home sellers and buyers just trying to navigate the process.

There's no clear communication here about how it's supposed to work.

There's no clear communication here about how it's supposed to work.

They have a ton of money and a really massive amount of power and influence because of their lobbying arm.

They have a ton of money and a really massive amount of power and influence because of their lobbying arm.

Yes and no. The Justice Department has been investigating the National Association of Realtors for years. There's been a back and forth with them for a very long time. The settlement was brought by private home sellers.

Yes and no. The Justice Department has been investigating the National Association of Realtors for years. There's been a back and forth with them for a very long time. The settlement was brought by private home sellers.

It wasn't, but the DOJ was absolutely investigating NAR, and they continue to investigate NAR. Commissions and the conversations about commissions are a huge piece of that investigation. But the Justice Department has a lot of other things on their plate right now.

It wasn't, but the DOJ was absolutely investigating NAR, and they continue to investigate NAR. Commissions and the conversations about commissions are a huge piece of that investigation. But the Justice Department has a lot of other things on their plate right now.

The government is very busy and working with many fewer staff than they used to. So it's really anyone's guess how high of a priority this is and if there's going to be further enforcement. Is there an appetite for it? Yes, definitely.

The government is very busy and working with many fewer staff than they used to. So it's really anyone's guess how high of a priority this is and if there's going to be further enforcement. Is there an appetite for it? Yes, definitely.

If I've learned anything in the last year from reporting on this, it's that buying and selling a home is really scary and really overwhelming to the vast majority of people. Mike is an anomaly because he decided to just go with his own and kind of figure it out as he was going along. For most of us, it's really scary. I've sold a home. I remember sitting down with my agent.

If I've learned anything in the last year from reporting on this, it's that buying and selling a home is really scary and really overwhelming to the vast majority of people. Mike is an anomaly because he decided to just go with his own and kind of figure it out as he was going along. For most of us, it's really scary. I've sold a home. I remember sitting down with my agent.

The word realtor, yes. It is a trademark of NAR. So you can only use it if you are a member of this group. And they have a lot of members, 1.5 million. They have more members than there are houses for sale in the U.S. So we're talking a very big, very powerful group. They were sued by a group of home sellers in Missouri.

The word realtor, yes. It is a trademark of NAR. So you can only use it if you are a member of this group. And they have a lot of members, 1.5 million. They have more members than there are houses for sale in the U.S. So we're talking a very big, very powerful group. They were sued by a group of home sellers in Missouri.

I had no idea what the stack of papers was in front of me, and we just agreed to whatever she said because we trusted her.

I had no idea what the stack of papers was in front of me, and we just agreed to whatever she said because we trusted her.

I did not ask about the commission. I'm willing to say that to you, Michael, to your face. I did not ask about the commission. I think we paid 6%. I honestly don't remember. If it happened to me, it can definitely happen to anyone who's listening to this. It is not a problem to pay 6% as long as you know what you've agreed to. Which probably means asking.

I did not ask about the commission. I'm willing to say that to you, Michael, to your face. I did not ask about the commission. I think we paid 6%. I honestly don't remember. If it happened to me, it can definitely happen to anyone who's listening to this. It is not a problem to pay 6% as long as you know what you've agreed to. Which probably means asking.

My number one piece of advice is to understand... Even if you're told you cannot negotiate on commissions, you can negotiate on commissions. And if the agent doesn't want to, you have the right to go find another agent. You also absolutely have the right to know what you are paying for and to ask the questions, okay, you're going to charge me this much money. What are you doing for that money?

My number one piece of advice is to understand... Even if you're told you cannot negotiate on commissions, you can negotiate on commissions. And if the agent doesn't want to, you have the right to go find another agent. You also absolutely have the right to know what you are paying for and to ask the questions, okay, you're going to charge me this much money. What are you doing for that money?

Just like you would with any other transaction.

Just like you would with any other transaction.

Since August of last year, correct.

Since August of last year, correct.

Michael, I asked this question to the lawyer who brought the case that resulted in the settlement and won it. His name is Michael Kachmar. And what he said to me was pretty interesting. He said, you know, Blockbuster Video, when movies started streaming— Okay, now you're really taking us back. Yes, I am. Back to the 90s.

Michael, I asked this question to the lawyer who brought the case that resulted in the settlement and won it. His name is Michael Kachmar. And what he said to me was pretty interesting. He said, you know, Blockbuster Video, when movies started streaming— Okay, now you're really taking us back. Yes, I am. Back to the 90s.

But Blockbuster did not shut down all of its stores the minute things started streaming. It took time.

But Blockbuster did not shut down all of its stores the minute things started streaming. It took time.

Yeah. It was a great transformation, just like he believed this will be a great transformation, too. But these things do not happen overnight. We're talking about an industry that has been ruled by a group, NAR, for over 100 years. And only very recently have people started challenging the way things are done. So the people that I've spoken to in my reporting believe, yes, it is going to change.

Yeah. It was a great transformation, just like he believed this will be a great transformation, too. But these things do not happen overnight. We're talking about an industry that has been ruled by a group, NAR, for over 100 years. And only very recently have people started challenging the way things are done. So the people that I've spoken to in my reporting believe, yes, it is going to change.

But it's going to take real time before those changes are clear and obvious and buyers and sellers feel the effects.

But it's going to take real time before those changes are clear and obvious and buyers and sellers feel the effects.

Well, Michael. Thank you very much. My pleasure, as always.

Well, Michael. Thank you very much. My pleasure, as always.

The idea behind the lawsuit was that their rules had essentially fixed prices on real estate commissions, inflated them, and made it so that real estate commissions were higher than they should have been. They did not expect to lose this lawsuit, but they did lose this lawsuit. And a jury agreed that they were fixing prices on real estate commissions.

The idea behind the lawsuit was that their rules had essentially fixed prices on real estate commissions, inflated them, and made it so that real estate commissions were higher than they should have been. They did not expect to lose this lawsuit, but they did lose this lawsuit. And a jury agreed that they were fixing prices on real estate commissions.

Yeah, the dreaded 6%. It comes out of your pocket if you're selling. And anyone who's ever bought or sold a house knows that when you sit down with your agent, it's overwhelming, it's confusing, and it gets wonky. No one really asks, how are these commissions paid? It's just kind of there. Right.

Yeah, the dreaded 6%. It comes out of your pocket if you're selling. And anyone who's ever bought or sold a house knows that when you sit down with your agent, it's overwhelming, it's confusing, and it gets wonky. No one really asks, how are these commissions paid? It's just kind of there. Right.

And you also have enough things to worry about that you don't get into the weeds about how these commissions are paid. But for real estate agents, for realtors, this is how they make their living. This is very important. It's literally their bread and butter. And this settlement was meant to shake up the system of how those commissions are determined and how they're paid. Right.

And you also have enough things to worry about that you don't get into the weeds about how these commissions are paid. But for real estate agents, for realtors, this is how they make their living. This is very important. It's literally their bread and butter. And this settlement was meant to shake up the system of how those commissions are determined and how they're paid. Right.

We are wandering the desert now. Absolutely. Most importantly, it was meant to say, this is the way it's been done for a long time. The way it's been done has actually...

We are wandering the desert now. Absolutely. Most importantly, it was meant to say, this is the way it's been done for a long time. The way it's been done has actually...

That is what economists predicted because commissions are actually baked into home sale prices. When you sit down with a realtor before you sell your home and there's all this paperwork and all this mumbo-jumbo, one thing you generally do is you have a conversation. This is how much commission you're going to pay me as your agent.

That is what economists predicted because commissions are actually baked into home sale prices. When you sit down with a realtor before you sell your home and there's all this paperwork and all this mumbo-jumbo, one thing you generally do is you have a conversation. This is how much commission you're going to pay me as your agent.

So as a result, we're going to set the price for the home here so that when that commission is paid out, you still take home as much as you want.

So as a result, we're going to set the price for the home here so that when that commission is paid out, you still take home as much as you want.

And if commissions go down, if you're only paying 5%, a 1% reduction in home prices across the board in the U.S. is a massive dent in the housing market that actually really should open things up for a housing market that is so tight and so restrictive for so many buyers.

And if commissions go down, if you're only paying 5%, a 1% reduction in home prices across the board in the U.S. is a massive dent in the housing market that actually really should open things up for a housing market that is so tight and so restrictive for so many buyers.

So we were really optimistic that it was going to change things.

So we were really optimistic that it was going to change things.

I call it the great real estate workaround. Hmm. Very intriguing. Thank you. Explain. The settlement was designed to take away these conversations that agents were having about commissions. These conversations were happening over these channels, these databases. They're called MLSs, multiple listing sites.

I call it the great real estate workaround. Hmm. Very intriguing. Thank you. Explain. The settlement was designed to take away these conversations that agents were having about commissions. These conversations were happening over these channels, these databases. They're called MLSs, multiple listing sites.

Exactly. It's where home listings live on the internet. And if you're an agent and you're working with a buyer and you're looking for houses, you go to the MLS to see what houses are for sale. But each listing has information on it. The address, the square feet, etc. It also used to have a commission amount.

Exactly. It's where home listings live on the internet. And if you're an agent and you're working with a buyer and you're looking for houses, you go to the MLS to see what houses are for sale. But each listing has information on it. The address, the square feet, etc. It also used to have a commission amount.

Yes, almost universally.

Yes, almost universally.

The seller pays the commission to their agent, and that agent for the sellers then splits that commission with the buyer's agent. Right. That's how it has been done for a long time. And MLS just kind of laid it all out. Yes. And the key focus of the settlement was that should be no more. Moving forward post-settlement, the rules said that sellers pay their own agents, buyers pay their own agents.

The seller pays the commission to their agent, and that agent for the sellers then splits that commission with the buyer's agent. Right. That's how it has been done for a long time. And MLS just kind of laid it all out. Yes. And the key focus of the settlement was that should be no more. Moving forward post-settlement, the rules said that sellers pay their own agents, buyers pay their own agents.

If you work with a real estate agent, it's up to you to pay them. That was what was supposed to happen. which should have brought a lot more competition and negotiation into the marketplace. What workaround could work around that? Well, the settlement was very specific in its language, that these conversations about splitting commissions could not happen on these databases.

If you work with a real estate agent, it's up to you to pay them. That was what was supposed to happen. which should have brought a lot more competition and negotiation into the marketplace. What workaround could work around that? Well, the settlement was very specific in its language, that these conversations about splitting commissions could not happen on these databases.

So the real estate community was like, okay, we'll just move these conversations elsewhere. It never said we can't have them at all. And I don't mean this is happening in secret.

So the real estate community was like, okay, we'll just move these conversations elsewhere. It never said we can't have them at all. And I don't mean this is happening in secret.

Just a few days after the settlement.

Just a few days after the settlement.

The president of NAR made a video that went out to every realtor in the group.

The president of NAR made a video that went out to every realtor in the group.

That said, to move these conversations.

That said, to move these conversations.

That video was backed up by NAR's head of legal, who has doubled down on the idea that in the settlement, the language says these conversations are banned only on the MLS.

That video was backed up by NAR's head of legal, who has doubled down on the idea that in the settlement, the language says these conversations are banned only on the MLS.

Michael, it's gotten a little bit wild. I've spent the past year following this very closely, talking to agents, talking to industry insiders. Remember, the 6% was split 50-50. So usually the seller and the buyer's agent would each get 3%.

Michael, it's gotten a little bit wild. I've spent the past year following this very closely, talking to agents, talking to industry insiders. Remember, the 6% was split 50-50. So usually the seller and the buyer's agent would each get 3%.

I've heard stories of agents who, in listing photos, are putting three cookies on the kitchen table as a sign to a buyer's agent, if you bring a buyer, you'll get 3%, which means they'll get their 3% also. Oh, wow. That's quite...

I've heard stories of agents who, in listing photos, are putting three cookies on the kitchen table as a sign to a buyer's agent, if you bring a buyer, you'll get 3%, which means they'll get their 3% also. Oh, wow. That's quite...

It's one way to put it. I've heard other stories of agents who've put movies on the TV screen in the living room.

It's one way to put it. I've heard other stories of agents who've put movies on the TV screen in the living room.

During a showing or even in the listing photo, there's a movie playing, but it's a movie that has three in the title, like The Three Amigos.

During a showing or even in the listing photo, there's a movie playing, but it's a movie that has three in the title, like The Three Amigos.

Yeah, some of them are much more old-fashioned. We're talking emails, phone calls, text. Some of them are really tech-savvy. There's one agent in Virginia.

Yeah, some of them are much more old-fashioned. We're talking emails, phone calls, text. Some of them are really tech-savvy. There's one agent in Virginia.

It's nice to be here again. Good to see you.

It's nice to be here again. Good to see you.

It enters all the homes they have for sale into their separate non-MLS site, compiles their data, and includes the commission.

It enters all the homes they have for sale into their separate non-MLS site, compiles their data, and includes the commission.

There's data that says that people who use real estate agents tend to get a higher price. There it is. There could be confounding variables to that data. Those people could have more money, could have higher priced homes. There's all sorts of things. But yes, there is a lot of data to back it up.

There's data that says that people who use real estate agents tend to get a higher price. There it is. There could be confounding variables to that data. Those people could have more money, could have higher priced homes. There's all sorts of things. But yes, there is a lot of data to back it up.

Yes, and it's important to understand this is not happening organically. In many, many ways, real estate agents are just doing what they've been told by the National Association of Realtors to survive in an industry that is cutthroat. Again, we're talking more agents than listings. There are not enough houses to go around. And agents do not work for companies. They're independent contractors.

Yes, and it's important to understand this is not happening organically. In many, many ways, real estate agents are just doing what they've been told by the National Association of Realtors to survive in an industry that is cutthroat. Again, we're talking more agents than listings. There are not enough houses to go around. And agents do not work for companies. They're independent contractors.

They pay their own taxes. They split their commissions with their brokerages. For the people on the ground, this really is... a life or death moment for their career. So they feel we're being told we should have the conversations elsewhere.

They pay their own taxes. They split their commissions with their brokerages. For the people on the ground, this really is... a life or death moment for their career. So they feel we're being told we should have the conversations elsewhere.

Why would they not, right? It's their job. But if you talk to the legal team that argued the settlement, they would say sharing is caring unless we're talking about real estate commissions and then sharing is collusion. And the real losers are home sellers because the settlement was supposed to drive down prices.

Why would they not, right? It's their job. But if you talk to the legal team that argued the settlement, they would say sharing is caring unless we're talking about real estate commissions and then sharing is collusion. And the real losers are home sellers because the settlement was supposed to drive down prices.

Initial data shows that these workarounds have been very effective at preventing the reforms. There have been a handful of studies in the real estate industry looking at how commissions may or may not have moved. The data is problematic because most of them are being carried out by people in the real estate industry, so they have a vested interest in the data.

Initial data shows that these workarounds have been very effective at preventing the reforms. There have been a handful of studies in the real estate industry looking at how commissions may or may not have moved. The data is problematic because most of them are being carried out by people in the real estate industry, so they have a vested interest in the data.

That makes the data less than reliable for reporting processes. But one study by one real estate media company showed that in the months after the settlement, commissions dropped about half a percentage point across the board, which is a lot of money. It's not this watershed that we thought was going to happen, but it's something.

That makes the data less than reliable for reporting processes. But one study by one real estate media company showed that in the months after the settlement, commissions dropped about half a percentage point across the board, which is a lot of money. It's not this watershed that we thought was going to happen, but it's something.

Two other studies, one was carried out by Redfin, which is also a brokerage, and one was carried out by a real estate accounting technology company, so they have a vested interest in this data, say commissions haven't moved at all. So the American home seller is not getting any relief at a time when they desperately need it.

Two other studies, one was carried out by Redfin, which is also a brokerage, and one was carried out by a real estate accounting technology company, so they have a vested interest in this data, say commissions haven't moved at all. So the American home seller is not getting any relief at a time when they desperately need it.

So we can use that data, but we don't want to rely on it because of the conflict of interest. What is more telling are the conversations I've had reporting on this for the past year. I've talked to dozens and dozens of home sellers and buyers.

So we can use that data, but we don't want to rely on it because of the conflict of interest. What is more telling are the conversations I've had reporting on this for the past year. I've talked to dozens and dozens of home sellers and buyers.

Yeah. So this is anecdotal data, but there's a lot of it. And they are all telling me that not only are there workarounds, they're more aggressive than ever and they're more frustrating than ever. Some sellers are so frustrated that they're saying, I'm just going to go it alone. I'm going to sell my house on my own and cut realtors totally out of the equation.

Yeah. So this is anecdotal data, but there's a lot of it. And they are all telling me that not only are there workarounds, they're more aggressive than ever and they're more frustrating than ever. Some sellers are so frustrated that they're saying, I'm just going to go it alone. I'm going to sell my house on my own and cut realtors totally out of the equation.

Find a workaround around the workaround. A workaround around the workaround around the workaround. But, you know, Michael, you used a biblical reference earlier about Mount Sinai. I'm going to use another one.

Find a workaround around the workaround. A workaround around the workaround around the workaround. But, you know, Michael, you used a biblical reference earlier about Mount Sinai. I'm going to use another one.

We're really in a David versus Goliath sort of situation where you have these individual sellers who want to sell their very valuable asset and an entire industry of realtors who are very committed to maintaining this status quo, mobilizing together to fight them every step of the way and make it extremely difficult to work around the system.

We're really in a David versus Goliath sort of situation where you have these individual sellers who want to sell their very valuable asset and an entire industry of realtors who are very committed to maintaining this status quo, mobilizing together to fight them every step of the way and make it extremely difficult to work around the system.

Michael, let me tell you about one of them.

Michael, let me tell you about one of them.

His name is Mike Chambers. He's a home seller in Boulder, Colorado.

His name is Mike Chambers. He's a home seller in Boulder, Colorado.

And I first became aware of him because a source sent me a video on Instagram that Mike had made.

And I first became aware of him because a source sent me a video on Instagram that Mike had made.

The expectations were sky high. The words that were being used by economists and analysts in the industry, earth-shattering, watershed, landmark, the greatest change to the real estate industry since the New Deal. Things that were really... pinning hopes that this was going to shake up a stagnant housing market and offer real relief to consumers in the U.S. who desperately need it.

The expectations were sky high. The words that were being used by economists and analysts in the industry, earth-shattering, watershed, landmark, the greatest change to the real estate industry since the New Deal. Things that were really... pinning hopes that this was going to shake up a stagnant housing market and offer real relief to consumers in the U.S. who desperately need it.

He created a handle called Realtors Hate Me, and he was chronicling the process of selling his house himself without an agent. Are you okay if I record our call? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Fabulous. So I called him to find out what was going on, and he told me his story. Mike is a former professional athlete and entrepreneur.

He created a handle called Realtors Hate Me, and he was chronicling the process of selling his house himself without an agent. Are you okay if I record our call? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Fabulous. So I called him to find out what was going on, and he told me his story. Mike is a former professional athlete and entrepreneur.

And Mike has a really nice house.

And Mike has a really nice house.

It's worth probably about $2.75 million.

It's worth probably about $2.75 million.

Really nice house, turnkey, renovated.

Really nice house, turnkey, renovated.

He decided to put it on the market. He interviewed a handful of real estate agents.

He decided to put it on the market. He interviewed a handful of real estate agents.

He knew about the settlement. He had read the reporting. He knew that things were supposed to be different now. There was supposed to be room for negotiation.

He knew about the settlement. He had read the reporting. He knew that things were supposed to be different now. There was supposed to be room for negotiation.

Every single seller who came to his home said, I'm not willing to negotiate and wanted him to pay at least 5% commission.

Every single seller who came to his home said, I'm not willing to negotiate and wanted him to pay at least 5% commission.

On a $2.75 million house, that's over $100,000.

On a $2.75 million house, that's over $100,000.

Exactly. For many people in this country, that's a salary for a year they can only dream of achieving. And he could not figure out what the agents were going to do that was worth $100,000.

Exactly. For many people in this country, that's a salary for a year they can only dream of achieving. And he could not figure out what the agents were going to do that was worth $100,000.