Dr. Allan Schore

And in that situation now, The more synchrony that is there between the two, the more interactive regulation there is between the two. And first there will be synchrony between the patient and the therapist. Then there will be synchrony and interactive regulation between that person and maybe other people, maybe a wife, a partner. And ultimately in the symptomatology will change.

Because remember the symptomatology is dysregulation. And the whole key is to change it to regulation.

All right. Here's what I'm suggesting. First of all, there has been some conflict on this, but after 30 years on this, I believe that there is a primary attachment figure. And the primary attachment figure is the person who is the interactive regulator of that baby when that baby is under stress.

Yeah. Or let me say it even another way. The primary attachment figure is the person who provides the right brain for that baby when that baby's right brain is dysregulated.

Yes, it's true. Women are better at reading nonverbal cues than men are, but it could be. And incidentally, we now have some evidence that's showing... that men do have right brains.

All right, now that being the case, what's happening here is that in the first year or two, the mother's right brain, the person who is the right brain in... which in most cultures is a woman, but does not have to be.

It could be a stay-at-home dad who literally has a good right brain, and maybe a couple are figuring out that literally he'd be better in that position, but it needs that right brain. But other than that, what happens here, when it goes now into the second year, toward the end of the second year, and the father comes online, got me?

At that point in time, the father now becomes a primary attachment figure also. But he has some differences the way that he's dealing with that baby. He's usually more arousing with that baby and that the play is more arousing with that baby.

Exactly. You're dealing with more upregulation and being able to tolerate more hyper-aroused states. Because in the second year, one of the things that the father will do with the infant is with toddler, infant, first year, toddler, second year. Rough and tumble play, for example. Rough and tumble play. So the father is that.

So the father literally is now teaching the child literally how to take risks. But the father is now moving more towards autonomy and independence. The mother was there at the beginning about interactive regulation. So the father is playing that role.

And I've also suggested that just as the mother is shaping that baby's right brain in the first year, the father is now shaping that baby's left brain towards the end of the first year, second, and into the third year. that he's shaping that baby's, his left brain to that baby's left brain. That being the case, he may also earlier on have had good experiences with that baby early on in life.

And a good example of that would be a father who was tender, tender, yet at the same time is instrumental and is teaching things about the world. So one brain is shaped by the mother figure, the brother by the father figure.

You know, I think what's happening in that kind of situation is the person is initially providing the right brain and then that person is now providing the left brain.

So let's say a single woman with a child, her right brain is there on the get, but then in the second year, and incidentally there may be father figures or family members who also can step into that, but essentially her left brain is there also. Remember, we both have right brains and left brains.

But again, that's a different kinds of skill in a left brain, which would be the more autonomous situation.

Yeah, yeah. Remember, it's the relationship in the end that is the key there. I'm also somewhat aware of that literature. And you used the word empathogen, which is not quite it. straight out empathic, but mimicking those kinds of situations there.

My thought is that that might be more efficacious if it were specifically involving right brain dynamics with a person who knew how to work with those right brain. What you're getting there are very early forms of the behaviors which are subcortical. The attachment is also regulating the subcortical areas, and those are the key ones.

And incidentally, we are paying too much attention to the cortical area. We literally have to shift, because the subcortical areas are the foundations of the human, and everything is built on top of that. I'll come back to in utero in a second if I don't get on that.

In fact, I have some people who have worked with me, have also been using right brain type psychotherapy with those patients, and I think that that will be... really interesting possibilities of seeing changes where you have the relationship, you know, in addition to that.

And also some understanding about how the right brain works, because one of the problems that you have where there is still some resistance to the idea that the right brain is just a simpler version of the complex left hemisphere, but that's not the case. This right brain is working completely differently. So I'm thinking that in that case, a better situation.