Dr. Craig Malkin
Appearances
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman and you're listening to Science Versus. Today is our last episode before we go on a little break to work on new episodes, which means that if you have an idea for us, something you want us to versus, we would absolutely love to hear it. There's an email, a phone number if you're in the US, there's social media accounts. It's all in the show notes.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Those traits. You see more and more Wendy's, less and less roses.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Do you remember this? Yes, I remember all of this. And it felt, I have to say, it felt very old man yelling at clouds to recall a meme that was probably around back then. There was, as someone who was a young science journalist hustling her way to success...
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
But a lot of the talk did feel like kids these days. Yeah. I was just seeing a pattern of criticizing the younger generation as opposed to necessarily a pattern around a narcissism epidemic.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Whoa. Huh. Huh. So what do these researchers make of that?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Hmm. So maybe there was something about that inflection point, reality TV coming online.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
So... So we are not in a narcissism epidemic. We may never have been. Yeah.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Today's AI Bytes is presented by Google Gemini. For anyone new to Gemini, it's an AI assistant you can have real conversations with. Whether you want to brainstorm something or prep for a presentation or interview, Gemini might help you do it faster. You can download the Gemini app for free on iOS or Android. Must be 18 plus to use Gemini Live.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Dr Sarah Webb at Swinburne University of Technology in Melbourne uses artificial intelligence to help us understand the stars, and in particular, flare stars.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
And so what, did you discover something fun through the clustering?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
If you didn't have the power of AI, like if we were in the... Dark ages. Not even like 10 years ago. Yeah. How long would it have taken you to cluster all of those?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
And how fast were you able to do that because you used machine learning?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Today's AI Bites was presented by Google Gemini. Using Gemini is as easy as having a conversation. You can interrupt it, add details, ask follow-up questions, and Gemini will adapt to you in real time. But the best way to learn about Gemini is to try it. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 plus to use Gemini Live.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Welcome back today on the show, narcissists. We're wearing our little mirrors to spend a day focusing on them, which they would love, wouldn't they, Rose? So where do we go next?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
That is surprising. It is. Because I guess there is this assumption that if you were a person in the world that lacked empathy, that didn't give a shit about anyone else, you could just do whatever you wanted. And that somehow makes you freeing. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Yeah, that really is surprising. I mean, it's just not how you picture a narcissist, I don't think.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Yeah. And hearing that, I could really see how... Narcissism can manifest as anxiety because you just have these ruminating thoughts of anger over and over again.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
So is there a way to help them? Because this feels like it's kind of the worst of both worlds. No one is happy. The people around them aren't happy. They're not happy. Can we do anything about it?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Oh, that's so interesting how Lee talks about it, that therapy has allowed him to see a different way of thinking, the quote-unquote, what he says, normal way of thinking, but he's still a narcissist. But that, I mean, just that stare seems like it's been helpful to him. I mean, do we have any data on other people with narcissism? Like, what's the chance...
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
So just have a look at the show notes, get in touch with us and tell us your great Science Versus idea. We always love hearing from you. Okay, but now it's time to start the show. This is the show that pits facts against inflated egos. Today we are talking about narcissism. So, of course, I've invited senior producer Rose Rimler. to tell me all about it.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
So that is how narcissists can help themselves. But on the flip side... I mean, if you are living with a narcissist who's perhaps not working on themselves in the way that Lee is, what can you do?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
If you decide, I mean, I do like this person, but God, they've got some crappy traits that I'd like them not to have. Can you do anything about that or you just have to take them as they come?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Whereas it sounds like you just had a revelation. Is there someone you want to try this on?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Oh, that's great. That's great. You know what really stands out here is the advice that you don't tell your boss. That makes me feel great. Thanks. Instead, tell them you're now more motivated to get your work done. Because the idea is that your narcissistic boss cares about your work. They don't care about your feelings.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess the takeaways of this episode are that narcissists are among us. There may not be as many of them out there as the internet would have you believe, but they are among us. Yeah. And there are some ways that you can try to deal with them. Maybe not so science-backed, but hopefully these tips are helpful. Yeah.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
And if you are the narcissist or think that you are, going to therapy is a good idea. Rose, how are you walking around the world differently after researching this episode?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Thanks, Rose. Thanks, Wendy. Alright, since this is the last episode for the year, we're going to be back. In the new year, have a short break and work on new episodes.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
49. Michelle, if people want to find these citations, where should they go?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
And? And if people want to send us their ideas for next year, Meryl, what should they do? Just look at the show notes. We'll also have info there for how you can tell us all your great ideas. We want to hear them. Blythe, how did Science Versus change your life this year?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Rose, you changed my daily life this year because I now soak beans every I soaked them and then I boiled them. Thank you to everyone who also emailed me giving me instructions. And I am never going back to canned. I can't. They're too slimy. Once you've done it properly, they taste better, less microplastics. Thank you, Rose. I'm delighted to hear that.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Michelle, I'm eating, as a result, eating more fiber. Wow. My poos are out of control. Amazing. Thanks. All right. See you in the new year. Bye.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Happy New Year. This episode was produced by Rose Rimler with help from me, Wendy Zuckerman, along with Michelle Dang, Meryl Horne and Aketi Foster-Keys. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Mix and sound design by Sam Baer. Fact-checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Music written by Peter Leonard, Emma Munger, So Wiley, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lorde.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Thanks to all of the researchers that we spoke to for this episode, including Dr. Igor Weinberg, Dr. April Ilkman, Dr. Jennifer Gerlach, Dr. Betsy Edersheil, Professor Brad Bushman, Professor Brent Donnellan, Professor Chris Barry, Dr. Glenn Gare, and Winky Ma. Special thanks to Rachel Humphries for editing help.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
And a big thanks to everyone who helped us with this season, including Jack Weinstein, Hunter, Chris Suter, Oscar, Elise, Dylan, the Zuckerman family, and Joseph Lavelle-Wilson. Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original. Listen to us for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We are everywhere.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
But if you are listening on Spotify, then tap the bell icon so you get notifications when new episodes come out. And whatever podcast app you are using, we would love it, if you love the show, to give us a five-star review. It helps new people find us, which we love. I'm Wendy Zuckerman. We'll back to you soon.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
It is blowing up right now. We're going to dive into the science of it. And we're here with senior producer Rose Ribbler. All right, Rose, question number one, is the world overrun with narcissists?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Oh, wow. From that argument that his wife just sort of threw out, you're a narcissist.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Uh-huh. And so to science, there is this distinction. There's a personality disorder narcissism and then just regular old garden variety narcissism.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Yeah, I mean, I remember it well, but I don't think we've moved away from the cultural moment of self-promotion.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Can we take it? Can I take it? Yeah. Gosh, when I just said, can I take it? I was like, is that a sign that I'm a narcissist?
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
It's like a BuzzFeed quiz where just a photo of Senator Palpatine is going to show up on the screen.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
I really like to be the center of attention. It makes me uncomfortable to be the center of attention.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
Everybody likes to hear my stories. Sometimes I tell good stories.
Science Vs
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded?
I wish, right? Oh, my gosh. Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone believed everything we said on Science Versus?