Dr. David Burns

of a positive, joyous, loving side to human nature and an inherently dark, sadistic, hurtful side of human behavior, and that they're both absolutely inherent things. in human nature uh you know a lot of people the pope recently made the statement that human beings are inherently good and and you know to me that sounded like a lot of non-nonsense a lot of silly overly idealistic thinking

But I think the thing that's hard for people to grasp is that in all of us, and you see it out in the open when someone's bullying someone, they're really getting a sexual and sadistic thrill out of inflicting pain and humiliation on someone who can't defend himself or herself or themself.

But I think the thing that's hard for people to grasp is that in all of us, and you see it out in the open when someone's bullying someone, they're really getting a sexual and sadistic thrill out of inflicting pain and humiliation on someone who can't defend himself or herself or themself.

But I'm just throwing that out there to see if you guys have that same view of human nature that they're bullying. It seems to me it's like a great example of sadistic behavior is what it is to my way of thinking.

But I'm just throwing that out there to see if you guys have that same view of human nature that they're bullying. It seems to me it's like a great example of sadistic behavior is what it is to my way of thinking.

Couldn't it also be a learned behavior? Yeah.

Couldn't it also be a learned behavior? Yeah.

Yeah, sure. That's cool. You brought us a list of great questions and various things, Matt, but including a list of 10 questions.

Yeah, sure. That's cool. You brought us a list of great questions and various things, Matt, but including a list of 10 questions.

thoughts that you've seen about by people doing a daily mood log about bullying because bullies can certainly hurt you physically but if they can't make you feel ashamed or guilty or less than or inadequate only your thoughts can do that and so that is one type of freedom that's fairly accessible.

thoughts that you've seen about by people doing a daily mood log about bullying because bullies can certainly hurt you physically but if they can't make you feel ashamed or guilty or less than or inadequate only your thoughts can do that and so that is one type of freedom that's fairly accessible.

The art form of how to interact with the bully is quite a different issue and equally important for sure. But I'll read a few of these. It was all my fault. I deserved it. This happened because I'm bad, weak, defective, different, et cetera. So that would be the self-blaming response. And one thing, I have this, what I call the contract, the abuse contract that...

The art form of how to interact with the bully is quite a different issue and equally important for sure. But I'll read a few of these. It was all my fault. I deserved it. This happened because I'm bad, weak, defective, different, et cetera. So that would be the self-blaming response. And one thing, I have this, what I call the contract, the abuse contract that...

we enter into with someone who's abusing us. And I'm not saying that all human beings do, but I think... you know, a good half or more of human beings do. For example, I can remember a woman I treated who had horrible, sadistic sexual abuse from a babysitter when she was a little girl from age 5 to 10.

we enter into with someone who's abusing us. And I'm not saying that all human beings do, but I think... you know, a good half or more of human beings do. For example, I can remember a woman I treated who had horrible, sadistic sexual abuse from a babysitter when she was a little girl from age 5 to 10.

And the babysitter said, if you tell on me, I'll murder your sister, who was two years younger. But her thoughts were, it was my fault. If anyone found out, they'd think I liked it. and one other that slipped my mind. But the three-way contract between the abuser and the abused is I get to abuse you for my pleasure. That's the first part of the contract.

And the babysitter said, if you tell on me, I'll murder your sister, who was two years younger. But her thoughts were, it was my fault. If anyone found out, they'd think I liked it. and one other that slipped my mind. But the three-way contract between the abuser and the abused is I get to abuse you for my pleasure. That's the first part of the contract.

And as you say, Manuel and Matt, it can be sexual abuse, it can be physical abuse, it can be financial, it can be psychological abuse. Whatever. The second is that this is all on you. This is happening to you because you deserve it. And I'm superior and totally innocent. You're the dirty one. You're the bad one, the defective one.

And as you say, Manuel and Matt, it can be sexual abuse, it can be physical abuse, it can be financial, it can be psychological abuse. Whatever. The second is that this is all on you. This is happening to you because you deserve it. And I'm superior and totally innocent. You're the dirty one. You're the bad one, the defective one.

And then the third part of the abuse contract is, if you tell any, we have to keep this secret, even from ourselves. that there's anything wrong or abnormal going on here. And if you tell anyone, then it's going to be the last thing you ever do. And this was a very bright woman. And it was 40 years later when I treated her. But she was still following those rules. She had never told anyone.