Dr. Ethan Kross
speaker
968 appearances
6 recordings
6 series
first heard Nov 2024
last heard May 2025
Dr. Ethan Kross’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Number one, there are no one-size-fits-all solutions for folks. So remarkable variability characterized the tools that work for person A versus person B. Number two, it was seldom the case that people used one tool.
In general, people used on average three or four tools each day, which I think is another really important take home because I am often asked as, for example, what is my favorite tool for managing emotions? I don't have a favorite tool because I'm typically using multiple tools and most people are doing exactly the same.
So it's kind of like what we're learning about emotion regulation is in some ways it's similar to physical exercise. You're not only going to work out your rear deltoids with the same exercise every day. You would have like funky looking shoulders if you did, right? And you'd probably be pretty weak in lots of other parts of your body. You're doing multiple things.
And the multiple things that you do to exercise, I'm guessing, are different from the multiple things that I do to exercise. Yet we may well be equally fit. Well, you may be a little bit more fit than me, but you get the drift. So there's this beautiful... variability to how we manage our inner worlds.
To bring it back to expressive writing, we found that expressive writing, when people used it, was really, really useful. It moved the needle on their COVID anxiety, but it was an underutilized tool. People didn't do it very much. And I think that's in part because it is somewhat effortful.
I was trying to – I actually – Isn't it amazing, by the way, when we're in those situations – and I know exactly what you're talking about because I was pretty sure I was in exactly the same position – The things you do in those circumstances to get some insight are wacky. Like I'm sure you were Googling things that – you had no business Googling these kinds of decision trees and – Oh, yeah.
So it speaks to this idea that, first of all, there are no one size fits all solutions to addressing many of the big kinds of problems and decisions we have to face. So there are different modalities to self-discovery and insight. And yes, you can think very rationally and work it through and write about it and have conversations with other people. And then you can also allow your
unconscious problem solving machinery to do its thing. We don't understand completely how this works, but we do know that your experience is not infrequent. many people report having moments of insight when they are not otherwise engaged. And one line of thinking is that we are doing problem solving behind the scenes that we're not aware of and the solutions are bubbling up to awareness.
So I actually, this may be the wrong usage of terms, but I weaponize this process for myself. So before I exercise, before I get on the treadmill or row or do whatever I'm gonna do, I will load up the particular issue that I'm trying to find a solution for. Sometimes it's how to word a paragraph. It might be if I'm working on a book, how to find the right kind of story.
If it's an interpersonal issue that I've got to... smooth over, I load that up. And then I just get on the device. It's usually an aerobic exercise that I'm doing. And I just, I don't really think about it in any fixed way, but inevitably the ideas, the potential solutions bubble up into awareness.
That is a real valuable tool that I possess that I think allows me to have success in various areas of my life. It also identifies one of the reasons why chatter can be so unbelievably pernicious. So we didn't get to all the benefits of the, there's one more benefit of the inner voice that I want to get to, but I'm going to take a detour here for a second because I think this is really important.
If we think of chatter as the dark side of your inner voice, you're basically continuing to loop over the same problem in your head without making any progress. What if this happens? Why did this happen? I'm such an imbecile. You're just continually going over that negative problem. phenomenon or experience. You're not making any headway.
One of the things that that does is it consumes our attentional resources. It acts like a sponge that soaks up those limited resources. And so what that means is when I get on the treadmill or rowing machine, and that's typically the time that I spend innovating, coming up with solutions that allow me to progress personally and professionally,
I don't have, my mind's not working to solve those problems. Instead, it is stuck dealing with this other muck where I'm not getting anywhere. And so we actually see, if you look at the literature, that one of the ways that chatter undermines people is it interferes with their ability to focus and solve problems. And that's just one way it undermines people, but that is a huge, huge liability.
I would say even more than an association. So we often think of chatter as what we call it is a transdiagnostic mechanism. So it's a mouthful that predicts various kinds of mood disorders. So what that means is chatter refers to a process, a process of looping, turning the same material over and over in your head. The content of that looping can take many different forms.
You could inject some sad cognitions in there. I'm a shit, such a shit. Is it okay to say shit?
I actually boxed in high school.
I would agree. In any case, I promise not to leap across the table if you do the same. Fair enough. Deal? Deal. So basically chatter refers to this process of looping over and over. If you inject some sad cognitions in there, I'm an imbecile, I'm never going to live up to my potential, I don't belong here.
So then you get, if you take that to an extreme high intensity and you perseverate over time, then you're getting towards depression. If you inject anxiety-provoking cognitions, oh my God, what if this happens? And what if that happens? And you go down that path of uncertainty and fear, well, that leads you to more of the anxious route. And if you are filling that loop with anxiety,
traumatic memories and reminders of really painful experiences, you can get pushed towards trauma too. So it is a process that cuts across many different really serious conditions that we grapple with in society. But I want to also be clear to folks who are listening that If you experience chatter, that does not mean you have any of those disorders.
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