Dr John Francis Leader

Hi, Clare.

I hope you're well.

It is, and really what we need is to develop a set of tools that I suppose happen on a few different levels.

One is providers themselves that are having appropriate systems, but also the regulatory systems because it may not happen just to the goodness of people's hearts.

But the other thing I think that's really important is the Council of Europe just three weeks ago had an initiative on digital citizenship education.

And this is this idea really of empowering people to not just be users of technology, but to be able to mindfully and critically engage with it.

So I think actually having this kind of conversation, it's part of that, but we need to follow it up with even more tangible ways of really developing the skills to determine what are we perceiving and is it real?

They absolutely are.

And there's sort of two problems.

One is believing information that isn't true.

But the reverse also happens because you play just before that segment in your previous segment, you played another clip of me on Martin.

And even though I'm a specialist in this area, I found myself saying, now, is that one real?

You know, and that question is good.

You know, we want to be asking yourself that question, but we got to be careful with that as well, because we could end up not believing factual information sometimes in times that it matters.

Yeah, it's part of what we do, and part of what we're trying to encourage more and more is, rather than not talk about this, or rather than theoretically talk about it, is literally bring in content and say, is this real?

Is this not real?

Now, sometimes it's going to be specific things you can spot.

So, Neil Martin's accent was a definite tell for anybody who knows him for that last segment.

But sometimes it's a bit more subtle than that.

It's a little bit like if you're buying an antique.