Dr. Joseph Fraiman

And the reality is we we never knew that when the vaccine was unleashed, when it was first authorized.

And this was a thing we had talked about years ago when I was on the show, that there's just uncertainty.

We literally cannot tell if this vaccine is helping more than it's hurting.

And it's just belief.

We've been basing it all on belief of the government was believing that this was going to lead to more benefit than harm.

But without actually data to support it, without the randomized trials,

which are necessary to determine this.

And that's, I believe the most important takeaway from this is that we didn't need to have them identify 10 children who were killed by the vaccine to know that we didn't have the knowledge if this vaccine was killing more than it saved.

Yes.

Right.

Irrational certitude.

I always called it, it was irrational confidence, actually, would be the idea.

You could even say irrational hubris.

And it is, but the sad part about this irrational confidence that

that many people in the country have towards these vaccines, it's sad that these are scientists.

And these were scientists who were running our government.

And I think that the country is actually quite lucky to have someone like Vinay Prasad there, who is definitely not an irrationally confident person.

He is rationally uncertain.

He's very clear cut in that he is saying, we don't know.

He didn't say that they caused more death than they, or they saved more death.