Dr. Stuart Ablon

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223 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Dec 2024 last heard Dec 2024

Dr. Stuart Ablon’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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The Mel Robbins Podcast · Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family · 16 Dec 2024 podcast

Or one of my favorites is I know there must be an important reason that fill in the blank with the behavior not so wild about because I always remind myself I may not love somebody's behavior. I'm sure there's good concerns behind it. And that's what you're trying to uncover with empathizing. So you're asking questions. If need be, you take a guess.

If you hear anything from them, you reflect it back to make sure you got it. And if you need to, reassure them. So it looks like, you know, hey, I wanted to talk to you about how you've been feeling. I know I've been on you to get some help, but obviously there's good reasons why you haven't. And maybe I haven't done a great job listening. Can you fill me in? Like, what's going on?

Why do you think that's the case for you? And I'm sure you got a good reason.

You got it. You got it. And I promise you, you can't go wrong. If you stick to those four things... I'm not saying it's magic, but it won't go badly. And it's almost impossible for somebody to get really worked up or shut down when all you're doing is trying to understand patiently. And if they're looking frustrated at all, you're reassuring them.

And, you know, sometimes you have to press pause and come back to it later. Sure. But you won't go wrong with those four things.

So I'm going to do this with my hands here, okay? Because basically what you've done in that first ingredient, the empathy ingredient, is you've gotten their concern or perspective on the table. Got it. Only once you feel like you've got that on the table and they're reasonably calm. And why are they calm? Because empathy is regulating.

Then you move to the second ingredient, which is where you are going to share your perspective, your point of view, your concern.

Well, no, no. But notice what I said. You're not sharing your solution to the problem. If you were, that would be what I call tricky plan A. You're sharing what you're worried about, why you're having this conversation in the first place, not your solution. And this is the heart of collaborative problem solving.

Yep. I mean, look, the reality is people want advice far less often than we think. And even when people seem open to advice, they're typically not going to follow the advice if they haven't been co-authors of the solution where their concern and perspective is accurately represented. Yeah.

So after you understand what's going on with them, you just share your perspective, your point of view, what you're worried about, not your solution. So if you had a solution in mind, you said, I think they need to do this, right? Like if you said they have to go see a psychiatrist and get medicine. Right. I would say, slow down, Mel. So you're saying they have to get medicine.

Why do you think they need medicine? Well, they're horribly depressed. They can't get out of bed. Okay, so your concern is how depressed they are and that they're not able to get out of bed. Fill me in more about what you're worried about. I just, I feel like I'm losing them. I feel like I'm, you know, they're slipping away from, okay, good. I've got your concerns on the table.

So instead of saying, okay, I heard you, you need to go get medicine. You're saying, okay, I heard where you're coming from. And I like to teach people, say the word and. not but, because but is I heard you, but here's the real deal. The and is I heard you, and I'm worried that it's hard for you to get out of bed, and I feel like I'm losing you, and I just see how much you're struggling.

Now we have two sets of concerns on the table. Then and only then do we move to the last ingredient, the one everybody's really eager to get to, which is where you're inviting the person to problem-solve together, to brainstorm solutions. But you have to tee it up like this. The reason I keep using my hands like this, if you only have one set of concerns on the table...

And it's Mel's, which plan are you using here?

You got it. And then you're working together. And I tell parents all the time, if you want a little tricky reminder here, a little trick to help you remember things, if you only have one set of concerns on the table and it's the adults, you're headed for plan A. If you only have one set and it's the child's, what plan are you headed for? Plan C. How do you know you're doing plan B?

You must have both sets of concerns on the table.

And here's the other thing. I think I can remember that. Okay, good. Well, it's only three. Here's the other thing that's really important here is this order is intentional, right? Notice we don't start with the adult concern, then try to clarify what's going on for the child and then invite them because they will shut down. And there's a reason for that, because our brains work in a certain way.

OK, information doesn't hit the smart part of our brain first, which is why you can't just start problem solving. You've got to regulate a child before they're going to be able to relate to you. before you can reason with them. And that rubric is a rubric coined by a good friend and colleague of mine, Dr. Bruce Perry, who does a lot of work with very traumatized kids. Regulate, relate, reason.

And the reason I'm doing this is this is how you move up the brain. Regulation, low down in the brain, move up the brain so somebody can relate to you, and then finally get to the cortex and reason with them. And the three ingredients I'm sharing with you, those operationalize that. It turns into an action. First ingredient, empathy. Let me regulate you. Second ingredient,

Let me ask you to relate to me by sharing my perspective. Which makes you a helper, not a solver. Third ingredient, let's problem solve. And if at any point in that process, they get upset with you or shut down, just go right back to the bottom of the brain, the first ingredient. Let me re-regulate you. Let me remind you, here's what I heard from you, okay? Got it. Regulate, relate, reason.

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