Esther Perel

Not that they want to leave the person that they are with, but they want to leave the person that they have themselves become.

Oh, shit.

What they're dealing with is their depression, is their loss, is their grief, is their aging, is their whatever issues inside, is the way that they lost themselves into, you know, they forgot who they are and all of that.

And that's what they are reclaiming.

And their sense is that they can't reclaim it in the same place where they lost it.

But it's not the other person's fault that they lost any of it.

Yes, you were into women.

You were into...

Like which is easier for someone to... Depends who.

So I think the most important piece that you're saying here is that every thinking about infidelity in a relationship is a dual perspective.

What it meant to you and what it did to me.

So the first thing in phase one is I need you to know what it did to me.

You don't go instantly for what it meant.

What it did to me, how you hurt me, how you deceived me, how you lied to me, how you betrayed me, how you were duplicitous, all of that.

And do you feel bad about that?

Do you experience guilt or remorse?

If I don't get that, there's nowhere to start.

Even if you had good reasons for doing what you did, you need to be able to know what it meant, what you did to me with it, especially if it has nothing to do with me, even more so.

If they don't, then you have a bad, that's a bad sign.

If they don't, and if they only justify and they, you know, but those are also people who typically will say it's because of you.