Ezra Klein

speaker

1,272 appearances 3 recordings 1 series first heard Mar 2026 last heard 2d ago

Ezra Klein’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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recordings per month · last 12 months

Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 3 in all, peaking in Sep 2026 with 2.

Appearances

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Hard Fork · The Ezra Klein Show: How Fast Will A.I. Agents Rip Through the Economy? · 27 Mar 2026 podcast

But the thing that always strikes me and has always struck me as being dangerous about this is everybody knows, and if I ask a member of any of the companies whether or not they want to be cautious here, they will tell me they do. voice-verified

On the other hand, it is their almost only advantage over each other. voice-verified

And you all just revoked OpenAI's ability to use cloud code because, as best I can tell you, think it is genuinely speeding you up and you don't want it to speed them up. voice-verified

There is something here between the... voice-verified

weight of the forces, the power of the forces that I think you all know you're playing with, and the very, very, very strong incentives to be first. voice-verified

And I can really imagine being inside Anthropic and thinking, well, better us than OpenAI, better us than Alphabet, Google, better us than China. voice-verified

And that being a very strong reason to not slow down voice-verified

I don't even know that this is a question I believe you can answer, but how do you balance that? voice-verified

But they're probably... voice-verified

either won't be or it won't be that strong. voice-verified

I mean, this actually sometimes frustrates me when I talk to all of you at the top of the AI companies, which is the emergence of like a very naive deus ex machina of regulation where you all know voice-verified

what the regulatory landscape looks like. voice-verified

Right now, the big debate is whether or not we're going to completely preempt any state AI regulation. voice-verified

And you know how slowly things move. voice-verified

There has been nothing major passed by Congress on this at all, I would say. voice-verified

And setting up some kind of independent testing and evaluation system that all the different labs buy into, it would be hard, it would be complicated. voice-verified

And it is, given how fast people are moving and how strange the behaviors the systems are already exhibiting are, even if you could get the policy right at a high speed, the question of whether or not the testing would be capable of finding everything you want on a rapidly self-improving system is a very open question. voice-verified

Do you think we're good enough at the testing? voice-verified

I think one reason I'm skeptical is not that I don't think we can set up something that claims to be a test. voice-verified

As you say, we have done that already. voice-verified

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