Ezra Klein

It does not mean there's not fraud, but it does mean that I'm not sure I would take that video as strong evidence.

I will note they've also gutted, Republicans over time, the IRS's fraud division.

There's a lot of tax fraud.

It is a lot bigger than daycare fraud in Minnesota.

And the, I would say, concern

with taxpayer money not showing up where it should seems a little bit selective to me here.

Well, it also reflects the move towards these fraud arguments.

And there is fraud out there.

There's fraud from immigrants.

There is much fraud from native born Americans.

It reflects the appeal of conflict expansion, I think, for the Trump administration, which is to say they are pointing this at blue states worldwide.

where they can also use it as an attack on political enemies.

So obviously Tim Waltz, his political career seems to more or less be in shambles now.

They've talked about moving into California to try to do this against Gavin Newsom and justify crackdowns in California.

But I think for them, both the fraud thing is very amorphous.

And they're using it to justify widespread crackdowns that, as you note correctly, is not how you run a fraud investigation.

But it also creates an interface with the political system and the political leaders of blue states.

So you can use it to go after your political enemies as well.

It creates a bit of a twofer for them.

I want to talk here at the end about the ideology behind all of this.