Ezra Klein

some core work from, you know, one of the law firms that folded to one of the law firms that was fighting. That struck people as an interesting sign. Harvard looking a lot better than Columbia and sort of creating more backbone among other universities and the Trump administration coming out and saying, oh, this was a mistake. Maybe we could just go back to the table together.

some core work from, you know, one of the law firms that folded to one of the law firms that was fighting. That struck people as an interesting sign. Harvard looking a lot better than Columbia and sort of creating more backbone among other universities and the Trump administration coming out and saying, oh, this was a mistake. Maybe we could just go back to the table together.

And when I look at the media, I was quite concerned about when we saw the settling of the defamation cases, when you saw what Bezos was doing, when he came out and said, well, we're going to have this free markets and individual liberties opinion page. That could mean a lot of things depending on how you defined it.

And when I look at the media, I was quite concerned about when we saw the settling of the defamation cases, when you saw what Bezos was doing, when he came out and said, well, we're going to have this free markets and individual liberties opinion page. That could mean a lot of things depending on how you defined it.

But you've not seen a purge of the liberal writers from the Washington Post opinion page. I'm not saying there's not a lot to worry about here, but the thing that feels to me like it's happening is, is there is more cohering of like coordination between among the administration's targets rather than less. The students are a completely different category.

But you've not seen a purge of the liberal writers from the Washington Post opinion page. I'm not saying there's not a lot to worry about here, but the thing that feels to me like it's happening is, is there is more cohering of like coordination between among the administration's targets rather than less. The students are a completely different category.

Well, yeah, and, you know, some of the... But I'm asking, do you think, as a felt sense, when you try to feel the zeitgeist of the moment, does it feel to you like the opposition is breaking or it's cohering?

Well, yeah, and, you know, some of the... But I'm asking, do you think, as a felt sense, when you try to feel the zeitgeist of the moment, does it feel to you like the opposition is breaking or it's cohering?

Just so we have it on the table, when we talk about competitive authoritarianism, how do you define that?

Just so we have it on the table, when we talk about competitive authoritarianism, how do you define that?

I want to pick up on the way anti-Semitism popped up here for a minute, Zach. You've covered a lot of the ways anti-Semitism works in illiberal movements. And the way it is working in this one is very strange. It's so weird. But it's also—

I want to pick up on the way anti-Semitism popped up here for a minute, Zach. You've covered a lot of the ways anti-Semitism works in illiberal movements. And the way it is working in this one is very strange. It's so weird. But it's also—

On the other hand, there is this, you know, throw open the doors of X to neo-Nazis and a movement that includes many anti-Semitic or anti-Semitic adjacent people. I mean, Donald Trump at one point had dinner with Nick Fuentes. You track this pretty closely. How do you understand both the usage of anti-Semitism as a rationale and rise of anti-Semitic figures in that movement at the same time?

On the other hand, there is this, you know, throw open the doors of X to neo-Nazis and a movement that includes many anti-Semitic or anti-Semitic adjacent people. I mean, Donald Trump at one point had dinner with Nick Fuentes. You track this pretty closely. How do you understand both the usage of anti-Semitism as a rationale and rise of anti-Semitic figures in that movement at the same time?

And Elon Musk at a different point when somebody was just offering extremely vile anti-Semitic conspiracy theories on...

And Elon Musk at a different point when somebody was just offering extremely vile anti-Semitic conspiracy theories on...

You can be a friend of Israel and be anti-Semitic. Yes.

You can be a friend of Israel and be anti-Semitic. Yes.

Your first book was about the rise of the online, what now is a MAGA, right? And you have these great scenes of being on these neo-Nazi podcasts. And there's a strangeness in the degree to which that is broken through, which I'd be curious to hear how you've absorbed. So you have much more mainstream figures now, like Joe Rogan having these World War II revisionist historians on.

Your first book was about the rise of the online, what now is a MAGA, right? And you have these great scenes of being on these neo-Nazi podcasts. And there's a strangeness in the degree to which that is broken through, which I'd be curious to hear how you've absorbed. So you have much more mainstream figures now, like Joe Rogan having these World War II revisionist historians on.