Gavin de Becker

This is a game that's going on all the time.

And privacy is just not part of the new world.

Well, again, from what's been public, the founder of Amazon was also the owner of the Washington Post.

And the Saudis had killed Khashoggi, who was a journalist for the Washington Post.

And the Washington Post then started putting out an Arabic edition.

That didn't feel good for the Saudis.

And then they really went after the, I'll call him a head of state, he's the prince, but

But his father was alive and was actually the head of state.

But they really went after MBS.

I think Bezos was a kind of adversary in that regard.

Additionally, the Saudi sovereign fund developed an Amazon competitor.

called something like Noom or something like that.

And so they were concerned about that.

And they were also doing deals with Amazon.

And so they could get economic advantage by seeing what the various executives are texting to each other.

So there was a lot of moving parts to that.

So all these things I've just shared with you with high stakes matters going on around the time that Khashoggi was killed and that the

Western countries of the world were objecting to this assassination team of his going around and killing people and getting into their phones.

Yeah, what they wanted me to do, the inquirer, and they negotiated with me and my lawyer over this, that I was to go public and say two things.

I was to say it was not politically motivated and it was not influenced by outside actors.