Gavin de Becker

And what I'm trying to do is show how the sausage is made in these debunking campaigns.

And it's not pretty.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, of course.

And, you know, you asked at the very beginning, did I think that some of these things were intentional or were they simply exploiting the opportunities that came?

I now believe that very few things are purely organic events.

That's what I believe.

In other words, any giant social movement like COVID is a giant social movement.

I'm not talking about the virus.

I'm talking about the response.

This is not accidental.

This is not people, oh, we thought this and we tried that and we were just doing our best to figure stuff out.

That's now impossible, that theory.

Do you think that the virus was released intentionally?

I'm open to the idea – that's exactly the one, by the way, that I went to my friend Bruce Wagner and I was suffering over.

In other words, can people do this kind of stuff?

But then you learn that we dropped infected ticks on Cuba, that Lyme disease is likely the result of experimentation.

Yeah, I moved out of New York State.

I had a beautiful place there, and I moved because I got Lyme disease and my kids got it, and I just couldn't every time I go for a walk in the forest—

have to think about this tick that's on you.