Geoff Knupfer

And trying to manipulate everything, trying to manage everything for the greater glory of Ian Brady.

Very, very difficult character to deal with.

And when we finally interviewed him,

You know, her interview, which was all tape recorded, of course, took three days.

His took about 10 minutes because he just said, yes, I did it.

You know, that was about the sum total.

Yes, I did all this.

I did murder this one.

I did murder this one.

And that was it.

She was very, very helpful.

She was very good.

We had a situation whereby, a facility, should I say, whereby we could go back to the office in the evenings and talk to her on the phone.

She was absolutely...

on board with this and you know i've been asked dozens of times over the years why you would think that was the case you know what what was it all about i mean she probably would have said well this was because i felt sorry for what i'd done it was his remorse and what have you i think we were more minded to think it was um was a was a ploy to get out of prison 10 years on you know she'd done another 10 years she'd

And there was no doubt about it.

They were looking, her advisors were looking to take this to the European courts with a view to getting her released because I think she was the longest serving female prisoner in the UK at the time, you know.

She did.

She did.

Again, it's quite difficult because this lady was manipulated by the tabloid press, tabloid journalists, and they were writing these letters for her.