Gordon Carrera

But also now at this period, the US has a particular home field advantage because it's US tech companies, which are being used by everyone around the world. And as we know, collecting a whole load of their data. And I guess the spies think, well, we want access to that. I mean, it is interesting because much of the story is built around a kind of slide deck, which Snowden had passed on.

Because you've got the logos of these tech companies on it. So, I mean, that's part of the kind of drama of this story. And also, the slides implied and the initial reporting implied that the NSA had direct access into the company's servers. And actually, it's interesting, but it's one of those things where over time it became a bit clearer. It was a more complicated thing.

Because you've got the logos of these tech companies on it. So, I mean, that's part of the kind of drama of this story. And also, the slides implied and the initial reporting implied that the NSA had direct access into the company's servers. And actually, it's interesting, but it's one of those things where over time it became a bit clearer. It was a more complicated thing.

Because you've got the logos of these tech companies on it. So, I mean, that's part of the kind of drama of this story. And also, the slides implied and the initial reporting implied that the NSA had direct access into the company's servers. And actually, it's interesting, but it's one of those things where over time it became a bit clearer. It was a more complicated thing.

that actually there was a kind of interface which allowed the NSA and FBI to send queries and then for the companies had a kind of interface which would pull it out. It wasn't a secret backdoor hacking into the companies, nor is it a kind of front door where they're going openly publicly.

that actually there was a kind of interface which allowed the NSA and FBI to send queries and then for the companies had a kind of interface which would pull it out. It wasn't a secret backdoor hacking into the companies, nor is it a kind of front door where they're going openly publicly.

that actually there was a kind of interface which allowed the NSA and FBI to send queries and then for the companies had a kind of interface which would pull it out. It wasn't a secret backdoor hacking into the companies, nor is it a kind of front door where they're going openly publicly.

It's a kind of discrete side door which allows the NSA and the FBI to go to these companies and get a flow of data that they are collecting from their customers. But you can see why that's pretty explosive for the companies and for the public who had no idea this was happening.

It's a kind of discrete side door which allows the NSA and the FBI to go to these companies and get a flow of data that they are collecting from their customers. But you can see why that's pretty explosive for the companies and for the public who had no idea this was happening.

It's a kind of discrete side door which allows the NSA and the FBI to go to these companies and get a flow of data that they are collecting from their customers. But you can see why that's pretty explosive for the companies and for the public who had no idea this was happening.

Yeah. Because I remember talking to tech company people at the time. First of all, they'd never heard the phrase prism. So people would go, what's this prism? And only a very few people inside the tech companies would have known it was happening.

Yeah. Because I remember talking to tech company people at the time. First of all, they'd never heard the phrase prism. So people would go, what's this prism? And only a very few people inside the tech companies would have known it was happening.

Yeah. Because I remember talking to tech company people at the time. First of all, they'd never heard the phrase prism. So people would go, what's this prism? And only a very few people inside the tech companies would have known it was happening.

One of the things I was saying was some of the confusion over how the servers were accessed and whether it was direct access. And I think that also points to one of the challenges with these stories is that Snowden had often provided a set of slides and charts to the journalists

One of the things I was saying was some of the confusion over how the servers were accessed and whether it was direct access. And I think that also points to one of the challenges with these stories is that Snowden had often provided a set of slides and charts to the journalists

One of the things I was saying was some of the confusion over how the servers were accessed and whether it was direct access. And I think that also points to one of the challenges with these stories is that Snowden had often provided a set of slides and charts to the journalists

But he hadn't necessarily always worked directly on these programs because he was an IT guy rather than on the whole a kind of intelligence analyst. And so one of the problems was he hadn't actually necessarily worked the programs or didn't necessarily know all the details. So they're left trying to decipher it.

But he hadn't necessarily always worked directly on these programs because he was an IT guy rather than on the whole a kind of intelligence analyst. And so one of the problems was he hadn't actually necessarily worked the programs or didn't necessarily know all the details. So they're left trying to decipher it.

But he hadn't necessarily always worked directly on these programs because he was an IT guy rather than on the whole a kind of intelligence analyst. And so one of the problems was he hadn't actually necessarily worked the programs or didn't necessarily know all the details. So they're left trying to decipher it.

And sometimes, as we know, people make shortcuts in how they write slides and do presentations. I take offense at that as a former management consultant, Gordon. My slides were perfect and accurate. Clear and concise. It's fair to say these slides were not meant for public consumption. And, you know, there are more questions raised by that initial Guardian article. For instance, whether...