Gordon Carrera

I'm not entirely sure whether we were told not to do that because they might spy on us or whether it was because we'd rack up a huge mobile bill.

But anyway, that's what we were told to do.

There are also, I think, some pictures circulating of me clambering out of a French kind of tank armoured reconnaissance vehicle, not very elegantly.

If you see those, they are not AI generated.

I'm afraid they really were me.

But this, we thought, might be a chance on the podcast to give you a bit of a sense of how the security and intelligence situation feels if you're in the Baltic states, if you're on the border with Russia.

How worried are people here about that possible threat of maybe a Russian invasion or of sabotage, the so-called hybrid or gray zone warfare that's going on?

So I've been speaking to a few of the people who are here at this conference, trying to give a flavour really of some of the things that are getting discussed.

It's a bit different what we normally do, so you might hear a bit of background noise and a little bit of chaos, but that's the feel of what things are like here.

So I hope you don't mind too much.

Two people I sat down with first were two journalists, two quite good friends of mine, I have to admit.

Shane Harris from The Atlantic magazine in the United States and Sean Walker from The Guardian newspaper in the UK, also written a very good book called The Illegals on Russian spies, just to talk a bit about what we were learning from the conference.

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Okay, I am sat with two distinguished veteran correspondents who cover not just these conferences, but the world of national security, Russia, intelligence, and also, I have to admit, two friends of mine, Shane Harris, now a staff writer at The Atlantic magazine in the US, and Sean Walker, who is from The Guardian, also author of a very good book on illegals, one of my favorite topics.

Deep cover Russian spies.

Both of you, thanks for joining us.

Shane, what's your view of the mood of this conference?